All dialects: future markers غاد ، باش ، ح ، راح

N

Nikola

Senior Member
English - American
Which countries use which,to say you will eat?

غادتاكل ,حتاكل,راحتاكل,باش تاكل​
 
    • In Morocco we use "ghâdi"
    you will eat= ghadi takoul

    In Algeria we use "ra-(h)* râye7"
    *(construction to express te verb "to be":rani,raki,raki,rah,raha(i),rana..etc)
    you will eat= rak raye7 takoul
    nb:in the west,"ghadi" as in Morocco

    In Tunisia we use "bêsh"
    you will eat: besh takoul
     
    MarcB said:
    Also Iraq,Syria,Jordan and Lebanon.
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    I think in Syria they also use "7a." I wonder if there are different contexts in which one or the other is preferred, or it if's regional, or if they're just completely interchangeable.
     
    elroy said:
    I think in Syria they also use "7a." I wonder if there are different contexts in which one or the other is preferred, or it if's regional, or if they're just completely interchangeable.
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    These are all used, I will have to leave it to someone else to explain the subtleties ح، رح، ب، ببقي​
     
    MarcB said:
    These are all used, I will have to leave it to someone else to explain the subtleties ح، رح، ب، ببقي​
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    This post might interest you. I explained some of the differences from a Palestinian-Arabic perspective. I did not discuss ح because we do not use it.
     
    I appreciate it everybody. Ayed and Tariq are the forms you gave the only forms, or is there anything like what Elroy says:
    elroy said:
    All but ح are.

    رح أحكي معاه - I am going to speak to him. (whether it was my decision or not, that's what's going to happen.)
    عم بحكي معاه - I am speaking to him. (right now)
    بكرة بحكي معاه - I'll speak to him tomorrow. (notice that when the present tense is used with a future meaning the time is usually specified. This form is used to indicate a decision that is being made at the time of speaking.)
    ببقى بحكي معاه - I'll (eventually) talk/get around to talking to him (at some point). (this also indicates a decision made at the time of speaking, but indicates that the speaker is not certain exactly when he plans to do whatever it is he just decided to do.)

    As for ح as I said we don't use but I'm pretty sure it functions like رح. But you should wait for confirmation from Syrians.

    I hope that helps. The subtleties aren't always so easy to explain so you probably have further questions. If so, please don't hesitate to ask them.
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    Nikola said:
    I appreciate it everybody. Ayed and Tariq are the forms you gave the only forms, or is there anything like what Elroy says:
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    Well if you want me to be more precise that's not a problem:)

    In Standard Morrocan( I say standard because southern and eastern Moroccan use different constructions,we generally call standard the dialect from Rabat/Casablanca which is the most influent)

    nahdar m3ah= I speak to him( all the time)
    kanahdar m3ah= I am speaking to him
    ghadi nahdar m3ah(or ghanahdar m3ah)= I 'm going to speak to him

    But you can use the present tense with a future meaning eg:
    ghedda nahdar m3ah=tomorrow I'm going to speak to him

    Standard Algerian(same thing,this is globally Algiers dialect.Western(Oran) and eastern(Constantine) are quite different)

    nahdar m3ah= I speak to him(all the time)
    rani nahdar m3ah= I am speaking to him
    rani raye7 nahdar m3ah= I'm going to speak to him

    and same thing:
    ghedwa nahdar m3ah= Tomorrow I'm going to speak to him

    I'm not sure about Tunisian so I won't say anything;)
     
    In Yemen we hear عدand ش . Is the sh reated to classical sa and sawfa سـ and سوف? Do any other places use these?
     
    It's interesting that in the dialects so many ways to express the future tense have arisen. One thing I was wondering today is how they originated; if perhaps they had origins in MSA, which I imagine many, if not all, do. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

    Here are my thoughts:

    راح and رح and other variants
    This one is pretty straight forward and does not warrant much discussion. The basic meaning of this word is 'to go.' The connection to the future is self explanatory -- going to do something.

    ح and ه
    I used to think that the ح was fairly unusual/unique, when compared with MSA anyway, and developed independently some how, but then the thought occurred to me that it may have originally come from راح with all but the last letter being lost.

    ه, I'm fairly confident, developed out of ح, perhaps because it is an easier sound to produce.

    Personal note: I have been accustomed to using ح, as it was the way I learned the future tense in Egyptian, but due to my stuttering problem I will also use ه if I am having difficulty speaking and it would be easier to produce.

    غاد (or is it غادي or غدي?)
    My thought on this is that it comes from the MSA root غ-د-ي which has meanings related to 'going or coming (in the morning)' and is used (more modernly) to mean 'become'. This root, as we know, is where the MSA word for tomorrow (غدا) comes from. So we can extrapolate and see the connection with the future.

    This is all I have so far. The other ones I am not sure about.

    I responded to this discussion as I did not think my question warranted its own separate thread, but it can be moved if deemed appropriate.
     
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    elroy said:
    I think in Syria they also use "7a." I wonder if there are different contexts in which one or the other is preferred, or it if's regional, or if they're just completely interchangeable.
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    There are 5 basic variants of the future prefix in Syrian I know of (I don't know what their regional distribution is):

    ra7, ra7a, la7, la7a, 7a
    رح ، رحا، لح، لحا، حـ

    Also, I believe you can use the present tense with future intent (bukra, bruu7 ma3o 3a-l-maT3am).

    As I am not a native speaker, I just picked one, so I always use ra7 رح.
     
    Tunisian Arabic, "baash" and "tawwa":
    Tomorrow I will meet him = ghudwa (baash) nqaablu.
    I'll let you know = taww(a) nqullik
    I will not leave my home = maa-neesh baash nkhalli daari
    I'm going to show you = taww(a) nwarreek

    Although I don't think I'd misuse one for the other, I can't see the rule that makes me opt for one rather than the other.
     
    In bedouin 7ejazi, same as Najdi/khaliji: "ba" so "I will go" becomes "baru7".
    In Moroccan, as Tariq said, it's "ghadi/gha", but in my area (Fès) we use more "gha", it comes from "ghadara/yughadiru" in MSA which means "to go". So "I will go" becomes "gha/ghadi namchi".
     
    Hemza said:
    In bedouin 7ejazi, same as Najdi/khaliji: "ba" so "I will go" becomes "baru7".
    In Moroccan, as Tariq said, it's "ghadi/gha", but in my area (Fès) we use more "gha", it comes from "ghadara/yughadiru" in MSA which means "to go". So "I will go" becomes "gha/ghadi namchi".
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    Are you sure that غادر يغادر "ghadara/yughadiru" (to leave) is the root for غا and غادي. I thought the root was غدا يغدو which has also given غدا (tomorrow)
     
    djara said:
    Are you sure that غادر يغادر "ghadara/yughadiru" (to leave) is the root for غا and غادي. I thought the root was غدا يغدو which has also given غدا (tomorrow)
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    That's what I red once, but I can't quote the source, it was a while ago.
     
    In my Moroccan dialect, we say : ماشي (to walk) and ما (short for mashi)

    Mashi yaqraw = ماشي يقروا. (They will study/read)

    Ma yaqraw = ما يقروا. (They will study/read)

    Also in some Northern dialects, they make use of : La-, Ra-
     
    fenakhay said:
    In my Moroccan dialect, we say : ماشي (to walk) and ما (short for mashi)

    Mashi yaqraw = ماشي يقروا. (They will study/read)

    Ma yaqraw = ما يقروا. (They will study/read)

    Also in some Northern dialects, they make use of : La-, Ra-
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    True although I think this is fading out because of غادي which is erasing ماشي. A lot of people confuse the future marker ماشي with the negative ماشي because they're too used to غادي

    As for ما, recognise that this sounds really confusing :D :D
     
    Hemza said:
    True although I think this is fading out because of غادي which is erasing ماشي. A lot of people confuse the future marker ماشي with the negative ماشي because they're too used to غادي
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    When talking to other Moroccans, I tend to use ghadi since it is less confusing for them.

    For the negative, we don't make use of mashi. It is still separated in all instance; ma- -shi/shay. So it is not confusing for us as it is for them.

    For example :
    • I am not sick = Manishay mrit. (مانيشي مريض) or Ma mrit shay (ما مريض شي)
    • I will not tell you what he told me = Ma manqullek shay shni qal li (ما مانقولك شي شني قال لي)
    Hemza said:
    As for ما, recognise that this sounds really confusing :D :D
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    Not to me, I am afraid haha.
     
    elroy said:
    I did not discuss ح because we do not use it.
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    Then either it is either a borrowing or a recent phenomenon amongst younger people ( :D) but my Palestinian mates use it. One from غزة uses it exclusively while the others sometimes use ح and sometimes راح interchangeably.
     
    djara said:
    Tunisian Arabic, "baash" and "tawwa":
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    Apparently, توّا is/was also used to form the future in Eastern Libya/Western Egypt but under -Nile- Egyptian influence, a lot of people started using ح hence instead of saying
    توّا ندير
    They say
    حندير

    Oh and غادي is indeed from the verb غدى/يغدو what I said a while ago is wrong, my apologies.

    This remind me that in Morocco, we also use دابا/ظرك to form the future but I think the difference lies in the probabilty. When you use دابا/ظرك it means that there is a probability of something happening but you're not sure
    for instance
    دابا/ظرك نجي
    (I think) I'll come
    .

    @fenakhay @I.K.S. correct me if I'm wrong
     
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    Yesterday I came across an Algerian from Western Algeria who was telling me about some of his projects. I expected he would use غادي but I heard instead با as a prefix and I knew about its existence in some Moroccan areas but I didn't know it was also used in Algeria. For instance
    بانخدم I'll work
    بانتزوج I'll get married
    باناكل I'll eat

    And I think it is derived from بغى thus implies the will to do something in the future. @ayed Contrary to Najdi, it is با and not بَ.
     
    That’s very interesting @Hemza .
    با is what you would hear in South Yemen, Hadhramawt, Oman and UAE. (Listen to the classic song باشل حبك معي by Abu Bakr Salim to hear several examples.)
     
    I know this song and I already watched some videos displaying حضارم actors speaking (my first reaction was: "they somewhat sound like us!"). It's not the most widespread way of forming the future as غادي is the most common way in Morocco and Western Algeria though some areas use با (in the dialect of Marrakesh and the surrounding areas at least regarding Morocco).
     
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