Timeline for What are the fault tolerances on the FDA food handling guidelines?
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| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Aug 26, 2014 at 16:14 | vote | accept | JSM | ||
| Aug 25, 2014 at 21:01 | answer | added | Bruce Alderson | timeline score: 4 | |
| Aug 12, 2014 at 4:22 | comment | added | Josh | I agree that this is a great question, and one that I often wonder about as a cook and haven't been able to find info about online. It's a legitimate question about food preparation practices, not site guidelines, that shouldn't be relegated to meta. | |
| Aug 11, 2014 at 16:35 | comment | added | JSM | @rumtscho I guess I am asking what the values of X are in your example. I realize that there are certain assumptions, and maybe the FDA doesn't make it public. If they do though, it would be nice to see it. That way the answer to I left x out y hours could be, "These are the guidelines. If you are in Minnesota in December, you may have n more hours. If you are in Alabama in August, maybe less. When in doubt, throw it out." I believe in nuanced answers, and a stock 'toss it' does not make me happy. | |
| Aug 10, 2014 at 11:56 | comment | added | rumtscho♦ | I don't think your question has an answer. Let's say that X bacteria cells of a given species will make the average person ill, and the FDA has calculated holding times such that a contaminated piece of food containing on average X*10^-7 bacterial cells will have at most X*10^-3 after being handled according to guidelines. Bacteria multiply at an exponential rate influenced by temperature, so it can happen that the same food will reach dangerous levels after 10 hours at 20 Celsius and after 1 hour at 25 Celsius, for example. And nobody knows the exact number of contaminating cells too. | |
| Aug 7, 2014 at 19:09 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/#!/StackCooking/status/497459535876202496 | ||
| Aug 7, 2014 at 18:40 | comment | added | JSM | That's what I figured, Joe. Not familiar with the LRFD method, but been engineering for 7-8 yrs now, so I am familiar with fault tolerances. I figure the number they give may also depend on cleanliness of prep area, ambient temp, processing of food prior to preperation, etc. I'm sure they take some sort of mean, but would like to see the raw data. Are there cases where 2 hours is too long, or where the food would be fine for half a day? Those are things I usually eyeball at this point, and would like a more definitive answer. | |
| Aug 7, 2014 at 17:03 | comment | added | Joe | I have no idea how they measure, but I would assume they'd use something like the LRFD method used in civil engineering -- you try to minimize the risk of there being a problem based on statistics. (how much of a risk they design for, I have no clue ... 1%? 0.01%?) and of course, different foods are going to have slightly different risks that the 2hr guidelines don't account for. | |
| Aug 7, 2014 at 15:53 | comment | added | Cascabel♦ | Yes, I agree this is a great question. Happy to discuss the rest on meta or in Seasoned Advice Chat if you'd like. | |
| Aug 7, 2014 at 15:44 | comment | added | JSM | @Jefromi Fair enough. I just get a little frustrated when I answer a question no one bothered to, and get downvoted as a result. I always try to give the 'correct' answer, then my experience, and qualify with YMMV. I may take this up in Meta, but I really do want to know how the FDA/USDA determines their safety guidelines. As an engineer, knowing the methodology behind them would allow me to give better answers and qualify the risks, should I choose to answer those kinds of questions in the future. | |
| Aug 7, 2014 at 7:27 | history | edited | Cascabel♦ | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 7, 2014 at 7:22 | comment | added | Cascabel♦ | If you have something you want to discuss to do with how people should answer questions, what should be closed, or why people vote the way they do, please take it to Seasoned Advice Meta. Some general comments, before you post there... Users are free to vote how they like, and no site policy will or should stop them from downvoting answers they disagree with, but downvotes aren't the same thing as saying you're not allowed to post answers like that. And we do frequently close food safety questions as duplicates of one of a few canonical questions. | |
| Aug 6, 2014 at 23:04 | history | asked | JSM | CC BY-SA 3.0 |