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Harper - Reinstate Monica
Harper - Reinstate Monica
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The guy is not an electrician, though.

Check with your city but you will find it is illegal for anyone to work on a rental unit except a licensed electrician. An electrician is someone who graduated high school or GED, trade school, and has apprenticed for 5+ years.

An electrical engineer is someone who went to college and got an EE degree. That only proves they muddled through college, it does not give them a "medallian""medallion" from the state permitting them to certify things as safe. That is a whole 'nother tranche of qualifications called a Professional Engineer.

But even if they have the Professional Engineer medallion, their "opinion" must take the form of a written plan, with their license number, filed. That's how the enforcement works - the board finds that paper, goes "this was a very bad design, you should not do this work anymore" and your career is over. What makes PE's advice good is that none will risk the lifetime invesment in their career by being caught giving bad advice. (also, PEs are personally liable for mistakes- which means, they need insurance.) And this is backed up by good safety culture among PEs - making them unlikely to do a thing like this or even give electrical advice unless they are dead nuts sure.

NEC is designed by engineers and sets out the standards for facility wiring in North America. It reduces the engineering down to a "paint by numbers" system that is buildable and verifyable by non-engineersthat is buildable and verifyable by non-engineers so you don't need a PE to certify every house. It says "this is the way".

NEC does provide space for PE's to override some things in industrial facilities under direct engineering supervision (i.e. have PEs on staff), but not in a residential context.

So this "engineer" is either a PE who is cattily doing this in a deniable way so they can say "I didn't do it, my child did after misunderstanding a conversation". Or is not a PE at all, and is just a jackass with an opinion.

Either way, the "engineer" is not a licensed electrician, and has no business touching AC mains on a rental property. The person can do DIY work on the single family home they own and occupy, but in our experience it's a bad idea lol. EEs make the worst DIYers.

The 25A breaker won't fix a broken fridge, anyway.

Refrigerators normally draw 1-2 amps. This is a surprise to some people who feel 600W worth of heat coming off of them and figure they must surely be high power appliances. They're not. On average, your Comcast cable TV box uses more power lol - or used to, until Comcast was shamed into reducing their idle power consumption.

A fridge can make 600W of heat from 100W because it uses a physics cheat code physics cheat code - it's a heat pump.

So… If it's tripping a 20A, it'sit has problems and is just as likely to trip a 25A.

Since the 25A breaker cured it, what's really happening is they are putting more than 19A of load onto the circuit, and either knowingly denying this, or simply being oblivious to the usage of their appliances.

I would ask the city inspector for advice, because it's well within their rights to slap an orange "unfit for occupancy" notice on their door, and really put the squeeze on them. If they wanted to help you. Now they arethe tenant is the the author of non-permitted work, and they can sort it out with the city.

I'd meet them halfway and say I'd pay for a dedicated refrigerator circuit if they'd fix the breaker.

And then they find out that by changing it, they broke the grandfathering, and it needs to be AFCI now. Whoops!

The guy is not an electrician, though.

Check with your city but you will find it is illegal for anyone to work on a rental unit except a licensed electrician. An electrician is someone who graduated high school or GED, trade school, and has apprenticed for 5+ years.

An electrical engineer is someone who went to college and got an EE degree. That only proves they muddled through college, it does not give them a "medallian" from the state permitting them to certify things as safe. That is a whole 'nother tranche of qualifications called a Professional Engineer.

But even if they have the Professional Engineer medallion, their "opinion" must take the form of a written plan, with their license number, filed. That's how the enforcement works - the board finds that paper, goes "this was a very bad design, you should not do this work anymore" and your career is over. What makes PE's advice good is that none will risk the lifetime invesment in their career by being caught giving bad advice. (also, PEs are personally liable for mistakes- which means, they need insurance.) And this is backed up by good safety culture among PEs - making them unlikely to do a thing like this or even give electrical advice unless they are dead nuts sure.

NEC is designed by engineers and sets out the standards for facility wiring in North America. It reduces the engineering down to a "paint by numbers" system that is buildable and verifyable by non-engineers. It says "this is the way".

NEC does provide space for PE's to override some things in industrial facilities under direct engineering supervision (i.e. have PEs on staff), but not in a residential context.

So this "engineer" is either a PE who is cattily doing this in a deniable way so they can say "I didn't do it, my child did after misunderstanding a conversation". Or is not a PE at all, and is just a jackass with an opinion.

Either way, the "engineer" is not a licensed electrician, and has no business touching AC mains on a rental property. The person can do DIY work on the single family home they own and occupy, but in our experience it's a bad idea lol. EEs make the worst DIYers.

The 25A breaker won't fix a broken fridge, anyway.

Refrigerators normally draw 1-2 amps. This is a surprise to some people who feel 600W worth of heat coming off of them and figure they must surely be high power appliances. They're not. On average, your Comcast cable TV box uses more power lol - or used to, until Comcast was shamed into reducing their idle power consumption.

A fridge can make 600W of heat from 100W because it uses a physics cheat code - it's a heat pump.

So… If it's tripping a 20A, it's just as likely to trip a 25A.

Since the 25A breaker cured it, what's really happening is they are putting more than 19A of load onto the circuit, and either knowingly denying this, or simply being oblivious to the usage of their appliances.

I would ask the city inspector for advice, because it's well within their rights to slap an orange "unfit for occupancy" notice on their door, and really put the squeeze on them. If they wanted to help you. Now they are the author of non-permitted work, and they can sort it out with the city.

I'd meet them halfway and say I'd pay for a dedicated refrigerator circuit if they'd fix the breaker.

And then they find out that by changing it, they broke the grandfathering, and it needs to be AFCI now. Whoops!

The guy is not an electrician, though.

Check with your city but you will find it is illegal for anyone to work on a rental unit except a licensed electrician. An electrician is someone who graduated high school or GED, trade school, and has apprenticed for 5+ years.

An electrical engineer is someone who went to college and got an EE degree. That only proves they muddled through college, it does not give them a "medallion" from the state permitting them to certify things as safe. That is a whole 'nother tranche of qualifications called a Professional Engineer.

But even if they have the Professional Engineer medallion, their "opinion" must take the form of a written plan, with their license number, filed. That's how the enforcement works - the board finds that paper, goes "this was a very bad design, you should not do this work anymore" and your career is over. What makes PE's advice good is that none will risk the lifetime invesment in their career by being caught giving bad advice. (also, PEs are personally liable for mistakes- which means, they need insurance.) And this is backed up by good safety culture among PEs - making them unlikely to do a thing like this or even give electrical advice unless they are dead nuts sure.

NEC is designed by engineers and sets out the standards for facility wiring in North America. It reduces the engineering down to a "paint by numbers" system that is buildable and verifyable by non-engineers so you don't need a PE to certify every house. It says "this is the way".

NEC does provide space for PE's to override some things in industrial facilities under direct engineering supervision (i.e. have PEs on staff), but not in a residential context.

So this "engineer" is either a PE who is cattily doing this in a deniable way so they can say "I didn't do it, my child did after misunderstanding a conversation". Or is not a PE at all, and is just a jackass with an opinion.

Either way, the "engineer" is not a licensed electrician, and has no business touching AC mains on a rental property. The person can do DIY work on the single family home they own and occupy, but in our experience it's a bad idea lol. EEs make the worst DIYers.

The 25A breaker won't fix a broken fridge, anyway.

Refrigerators normally draw 1-2 amps. This is a surprise to some people who feel 600W worth of heat coming off of them and figure they must surely be high power appliances. They're not. On average, your Comcast cable TV box uses more power lol - or used to, until Comcast was shamed into reducing their idle power consumption.

A fridge can make 600W of heat from 100W because it uses a physics cheat code - it's a heat pump.

So… If it's tripping a 20A, it has problems and is just as likely to trip a 25A.

Since the 25A breaker cured it, what's really happening is they are putting more than 19A of load onto the circuit, and either knowingly denying this, or simply being oblivious to the usage of their appliances.

I would ask the city inspector for advice, because it's well within their rights to slap an orange "unfit for occupancy" notice on their door, and really put the squeeze on them. If they wanted to help you. Now the tenant is the the author of non-permitted work, and they can sort it out with the city.

I'd meet them halfway and say I'd pay for a dedicated refrigerator circuit if they'd fix the breaker.

And then they find out that by changing it, they broke the grandfathering, and it needs to be AFCI now. Whoops!

Source Link
Harper - Reinstate Monica
Harper - Reinstate Monica
  • 315.2k
  • 28
  • 302
  • 774

The guy is not an electrician, though.

Check with your city but you will find it is illegal for anyone to work on a rental unit except a licensed electrician. An electrician is someone who graduated high school or GED, trade school, and has apprenticed for 5+ years.

An electrical engineer is someone who went to college and got an EE degree. That only proves they muddled through college, it does not give them a "medallian" from the state permitting them to certify things as safe. That is a whole 'nother tranche of qualifications called a Professional Engineer.

But even if they have the Professional Engineer medallion, their "opinion" must take the form of a written plan, with their license number, filed. That's how the enforcement works - the board finds that paper, goes "this was a very bad design, you should not do this work anymore" and your career is over. What makes PE's advice good is that none will risk the lifetime invesment in their career by being caught giving bad advice. (also, PEs are personally liable for mistakes- which means, they need insurance.) And this is backed up by good safety culture among PEs - making them unlikely to do a thing like this or even give electrical advice unless they are dead nuts sure.

NEC is designed by engineers and sets out the standards for facility wiring in North America. It reduces the engineering down to a "paint by numbers" system that is buildable and verifyable by non-engineers. It says "this is the way".

NEC does provide space for PE's to override some things in industrial facilities under direct engineering supervision (i.e. have PEs on staff), but not in a residential context.

So this "engineer" is either a PE who is cattily doing this in a deniable way so they can say "I didn't do it, my child did after misunderstanding a conversation". Or is not a PE at all, and is just a jackass with an opinion.

Either way, the "engineer" is not a licensed electrician, and has no business touching AC mains on a rental property. The person can do DIY work on the single family home they own and occupy, but in our experience it's a bad idea lol. EEs make the worst DIYers.

The 25A breaker won't fix a broken fridge, anyway.

Refrigerators normally draw 1-2 amps. This is a surprise to some people who feel 600W worth of heat coming off of them and figure they must surely be high power appliances. They're not. On average, your Comcast cable TV box uses more power lol - or used to, until Comcast was shamed into reducing their idle power consumption.

A fridge can make 600W of heat from 100W because it uses a physics cheat code - it's a heat pump.

So… If it's tripping a 20A, it's just as likely to trip a 25A.

Since the 25A breaker cured it, what's really happening is they are putting more than 19A of load onto the circuit, and either knowingly denying this, or simply being oblivious to the usage of their appliances.

I would ask the city inspector for advice, because it's well within their rights to slap an orange "unfit for occupancy" notice on their door, and really put the squeeze on them. If they wanted to help you. Now they are the author of non-permitted work, and they can sort it out with the city.

I'd meet them halfway and say I'd pay for a dedicated refrigerator circuit if they'd fix the breaker.

And then they find out that by changing it, they broke the grandfathering, and it needs to be AFCI now. Whoops!