Timeline for answer to In Europe, are you allowed to enter an intersection on red light in order to allow emergency vehicles to pass? by nvoigt
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| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Aug 12, 2024 at 18:34 | comment | added | Trish | @user149408 True, §34 also applies. Also: It's allowable to run a red light if you try to get a person to the hospital in your car under the same justifications. | |
| Aug 12, 2024 at 18:30 | comment | added | user149408 | @Trish § 32 is about Notwehr (self-defense), which is only applicable when defending oneself or others against an unlawful attack. What you describe is close to § 34 (rechtfertigender Notstand): adequate acts with the aim of fending off an imminent threat to the life, limb, freedom, honor, property or any other legal good shall not be illegal if, assessing the conflicting interests, in particular the legal goods concerned and the risk to them, the protected good outweighs the affected one. IANAL, though. | |
| Aug 12, 2024 at 18:22 | comment | added | user149408 | ADAC (the major German automobile association) has a video on this: youtube.com/watch?v=T6YqGr7hC7A. Main takeaway: it is legal to run a red traffic light if this was necessary to make way for emergency services. They recommend recording the date and time, ideally also the license plate of the emergency vehicle, so that in case you do get a ticket, you can contest it. Btw, fines for impeding an emergency vehicle start at € 240, plus 2 points on the driver’s license, and suspension of the license for 1 month. | |
| Aug 12, 2024 at 14:44 | comment | added | Trish | So the argumentation also could be "I provide emergency help by making way for the emergency vehicle, which is a total excuse for the redlight infraction. I also do not commit hindering or rescue workers by making way and follow the order of the StVO to make way for them." | |
| Aug 12, 2024 at 14:42 | comment | added | Trish | @Sneftel There actually is some caselaw, but in Germany, Caselaw is non-binding unless it is from the BGH, and no such case ever got there, because everybody will accept that a redlight infraction to make way for emergency vehicles is exigent circumstances and it is not warrented to take 200 bucks for the redlight when life is on the line. Remember that hindering rescue workers is actually a crime (StGB § 323 c Abs. 2), while a redlight infraction is just a fineable misdemeanor. With Nothilfe (emergency help) you can breach lesser laws to save life and limb (StGB § 32) | |
| Aug 12, 2024 at 8:09 | comment | added | AnoE | @nvoigt One tip some site (maybe ADAC?) had was to take note of the number plate of the ambulance just to make sure you have something to show if and when the traffic light comes with automatic video surveillance. Might want to add that to the answer if you think it's helpful. | |
| Aug 11, 2024 at 6:11 | comment | added | nvoigt | And yes, I think o.m. presented it correctly, the incoherence is in the law, not their explanation. | |
| Aug 11, 2024 at 6:10 | comment | added | nvoigt | @Sneftel I think you are asking a little much in terms of coherency from a law that was written by someone who thought fit to include some weird first-person-roleplaying into it. Those are the laws we have, and they are interpreted exactly as I described. There are no court decisions, because those cases don't go to court. Every single page of advice will tell you the same. For example: malteser.de/aware/hilfreich/… . None of them can cite the actual law any better than I did. | |
| Aug 10, 2024 at 21:35 | comment | added | Sneftel | @nvoigt I’m still baffled by this. It doesn’t seem like o.m. has represented your reasoning correctly or coherently. | |
| Aug 10, 2024 at 14:30 | comment | added | nvoigt | Trish ist correct. Just for context, an "RTW" is an ambulance on emergency/rescue duty (compared to a "KTW", also an ambulance, but on transport duty for non-emergencies). | |
| Aug 10, 2024 at 14:21 | comment | added | Trish | About the experience: The rescue vehicle will drive dangerously if you don't make way fast enough. There have been numerous occasions of RTWs colliding with drivers who did not make way or not fast enough or who, god behold, swerved to the wrong side (e.g. from left lane to the right instead of left) | |
| Aug 10, 2024 at 14:13 | comment | added | Trish | Side Note: If you don't clear the way or drive into the way to stop a rescue vehicle with active Sonderrechte, you could be prosecuted for duress. If your act results in a delay that leads to a death, you could even be charged for that! | |
| Aug 10, 2024 at 7:06 | comment | added | Sneftel | But the other sections don’t hinge on that status. They don’t even mention it. | |
| Aug 10, 2024 at 4:08 | comment | added | o.m. | @Sneftel, it defines that the other services have Sonderrechte just like the police. That does not make them the police. | |
| Aug 9, 2024 at 14:17 | comment | added | Sneftel | @o.m. But that section doesn't define "police" to include other emergency responders. | |
| Aug 9, 2024 at 14:05 | comment | added | o.m. | @Sneftel paragraph 35. nvoigt explained why it is pointless to quote it in full; gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo_2013/__35.html | |
| Aug 9, 2024 at 13:55 | comment | added | Sneftel | @o.m. I can't see where you're quoting from. The previous section explicitly refers to police and firefighters separately. Which section has that enumeration? | |
| Aug 9, 2024 at 12:51 | comment | added | o.m. | @Sneftel, "police" means in this context "police or other authorized personnel as enumerated previously." §36 is relevant because it stresses the need for caution by the motorist. | |
| Aug 9, 2024 at 11:00 | comment | added | Sneftel | I can’t see the connection you’re drawing between those two sections. It sounds like you’re saying that a fire truck’s siren is legally a police officer ordering drivers to give way. | |
| Aug 9, 2024 at 10:58 | history | edited | nvoigt | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Aug 9, 2024 at 10:53 | history | answered | nvoigt | CC BY-SA 4.0 |