Timeline for answer to Low kicks vs high kicks in street fight by Wolpertinger
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
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| Apr 25, 2016 at 14:20 | comment | added | Wolpertinger | @Zen_Hydra IMO i was giving very rational and productive arguments. while i accept that you disagree the back and forth is on you because you werent adressing my points. instead you were just repeating your argument that i had already adressed. i even gave a video example showing that groin kicks work which clearly goes against your claim that man can protect theor geoin due to some natural reflexes. also in the video it is clearly the groin kick that forced him to his knees while the initial punches didnt do much. and now you just say there is nothing productive because it doesnt support you? | |
| Apr 25, 2016 at 13:27 | comment | added | Zen_Hydra | @Numrok I've said I have to say on the matter. There doesn't seem to be anything productive coming out of this back and forth. | |
| Apr 22, 2016 at 22:24 | comment | added | Wolpertinger | @Zen_Hydra where you at man? | |
| Apr 15, 2016 at 18:51 | comment | added | Wolpertinger | @Zen_Hydra a "preponderance of evidence". Would you care to provide it? So far I haven't heard any evidence, not even references other than yourselves were named. Also, about that instinct to defend your groin, I'm gonna leave this here: youtube.com/watch?v=daNgf7zehrk | |
| Apr 15, 2016 at 18:11 | comment | added | Zen_Hydra | @Numrock First, you don't get to complain about me citing my personal experience when you explicitly asked for it. Second, the issue is more than our styles disagreeing on a particular point. It's that multiple disciplines plus a preponderance of evidence contradicts the notion that a groin kick is an optimal defense against a male aggressor. Every male grows up learning to protect their vulnerable external genitalia, and even a successful kick isn't necessarily debilitating. There are more effective ways to use a kick in self-defense (an excellent example is an oblique kick to the knee). | |
| Apr 15, 2016 at 16:25 | comment | added | Wolpertinger | Part 3: I'm just saying this to show you that I'm trying to argue rationally. If you have any counterargument I am happy to hear and consider is, but please don't list your experience again or how you protect your balls when your friends try to kick you... | |
| Apr 15, 2016 at 16:24 | comment | added | Wolpertinger | Part 2: Well, the most reasonable thing is surely to teach people the different techniques and if someone gets into an actual self-defense situation where they have to apply it we interview them, let them describe the situation and see which techniques worked. KMG have been doing that for over a decade now. Their curriculum is dynamic in that sense and not based on someone's "own experience", traditional techniques or (most importantly) not the misconception that techniques that work in training work in real life. | |
| Apr 15, 2016 at 16:21 | comment | added | Wolpertinger | @Zen_Hydra Part 1: I completely agree that it does not have authority on self defense, but in particular Eyal Yanilov's Krav Maga Global brings quite convincing arguments to the table when thinking about which techniques work. You and me have argued from a theoretical point and we both have experience in Martial Arts and still disagree, since our styles teach different things. So how should we decide which technique is more effective? | |
| Apr 15, 2016 at 13:58 | comment | added | Zen_Hydra | @Numrok A snap kick to the groin is a snap kick to the groin. It doesn't matter if you learned it from Krav Maga, Wing Chun, Goju-Ryu karate, or an anti-rape class at the YMCA. The mechanics are the same, and effectiveness against an aggressor are the same. Krav Maga isn't some ultimate authority when it comes to self defense. Every combat art I have studied, seen, or even read about focuses an self-defense. That's kind of the whole point of the martial arts - preserving your own life and minimizing/eliminating potential threats to it. You asked if I had experience to the contrary, and I do. | |
| Apr 15, 2016 at 10:41 | history | edited | Wolpertinger | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Apr 15, 2016 at 8:35 | comment | added | Wolpertinger | @Zen_Hydra also i think that self-defense is not the same as an accumulation of martial arts techniques. so if you give me a list of your experience and it does not include a specialised self-defense sport, i'd be forced to say you're just a self-proclaimed expert. i dont claim i am, but the least you could do is refer to curricula or specific techniques rather than say how good you are at boxing. you can be the greatest boxet of all time, doesnt mean you know how to disarm a gun | |
| Apr 15, 2016 at 8:31 | comment | added | Wolpertinger | @Zen_Hydra i was not trying to question your expertise in martial arts (pls excuse if it came across like that). all i was doing is referring to specialised self-defense styles whose masters put a lot of work into developing strategies (see my other comments). so this doesnt come from my "lifetime of experience", but rather IMO reliable sources. | |
| Apr 14, 2016 at 16:07 | comment | added | Zen_Hydra | @Numrok I have a lifetime of experience being a male, and growing up around other males who regularly ambush attacked each others genitals (i.e. 'cup check'). Having done some degree of world travel when I was in the Army, I found this kind of male horse-play to be fairly ubiquitous. I have studied Western and Eastern combat arts since I was deemed old enough to hold a fencing saber and learn the fundamentals of boxing and wrestling (some of my father's passions). The depth and breadth of my experience has shown me that groin kick's are a sub-optimal choice for self-defense. | |
| Apr 14, 2016 at 8:41 | comment | added | Wolpertinger | @slugster I think modern self defense requires specialized styles, in particular with regard to weapons defense and strategy. But I don't want to open a can of worms here... About the downward punch to the groin I will have to manifestly disagree. I'm not sure which "nerve clusters" you are talking about, but I will again refer to the official Krav Maga technique: punch/slap attacks to the groin are usually a swing with the fingers curling around to slap upwards agains the groin. | |
| Apr 14, 2016 at 2:08 | comment | added | slugster♦ | "Self defense" doesn't have a particular style, it is an accumulation of techniques and strategies from whatever arts you choose. We teach a whole bunch of different self defense techniques, but we advise not to go for the groin kick because of its low rate of success and victims will tend to focus on it therefore getting into more trouble. A (downward) punch to the groin actually has a better chance of success than a kick due to it being unexpected, and also due to it actually hitting (and stretching) nerve clusters rather than hitting the scrotal area. | |
| Apr 14, 2016 at 0:00 | comment | added | Wolpertinger | @slugster fair enough. may I ask which other targets you are teaching? and what self defense style is this you are talking about? | |
| Apr 13, 2016 at 23:58 | comment | added | slugster♦ | You have a well considered answer but I would agree with @Zen_Hydra. When teaching self defense we specifically encourage students to not focus on the groin kick because it is a surprisingly hard target to hit. Or to turn that around, it is very easy to get it wrong and mishit or straight out miss the target. It is a very easy target for males to protect and they do it instinctively. You get a better return on investment if you concentrate on other targets. | |
| Apr 13, 2016 at 21:49 | comment | added | Wolpertinger | @Zen_Hydra if you have any experience indicating otherwise i would be very interested to know more! | |
| Apr 13, 2016 at 21:45 | comment | added | Wolpertinger | @Zen_Hydra i've for about 3 years with groin kicks allowed and i dont find it easy to defend at all. mainly because of the speed of the kick. also untrained attackers usually have their eyes on the opponents head. to back this up and show it's not just my opinion: check out krav maga globals curriculum. most techniques have a groin attack of some sort. you may dispute this, but in my opinion there is nothing that goes over their expertise when it comes to self-defense. they even interview members who got into defense situations to see which techniques were effective and adapt accordingly | |
| Apr 13, 2016 at 21:34 | comment | added | Zen_Hydra | I'll counter with this: What is universally the specific type of kick every adult male has practiced defending himself from? Protecting our exposed genitalia is one of the first defensive techniques boys learn, and it is almost ubiquitously so. | |
| Apr 13, 2016 at 20:07 | history | answered | Wolpertinger | CC BY-SA 3.0 |