Timeline for We are switching to system fonts on May 10, 2021
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
209 events
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| Jan 11, 2022 at 9:02 | history | protected | CommunityBotStaff | ||
| Oct 13, 2021 at 17:33 | review | Suggested edits | |||
| Oct 13, 2021 at 19:43 | |||||
| Jul 12, 2021 at 17:59 | comment | added | Prid | Chrome extension to revert fonts (and other changes): chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/revert-stackexchange-form/… | |
| Jul 12, 2021 at 17:58 | answer | added | Prid | timeline score: 5 | |
| Jun 9, 2021 at 18:43 | comment | added | Luuklag | I noticed changes about 15 minutes or so ago, what exactly did change (I'm a MacOs user) | |
| Jun 5, 2021 at 21:57 | comment | added | Journeyman Geek Mod | @Marcono1234 - I have an answer pointing this out | |
| Jun 5, 2021 at 15:30 | comment | added | Marcono1234 |
On Windows when using bold italic code formatted text it is displayed using cursive writing: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy; ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXY. This is pretty difficult to read; can be seen here for "id_rsa.pub".
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| May 28, 2021 at 2:52 | answer | added | Journeyman GeekMod | timeline score: 13 | |
| May 20, 2021 at 17:35 | comment | added | Boaz | To revert this senseless change, see the excellent stackapps.com/questions/8932/… | |
| May 20, 2021 at 5:42 | comment | added | Ted Lyngmo | "If something feels off on Windows, do revisit your ClearType settings" - I've turned ClearType on and off and tried to select different boxes for readability but it does nothing to change the way the new code blocks looks on Windows. The font is still much larger than before and you now have to scroll horizontally to see all the code in posts that fitted in the code blocks just fine before. Do I need to uninstall fonts to get the old font and font size back? | |
| May 19, 2021 at 15:23 | comment | added | rustyx | BTW, Arial is a built-in font on Windows, so why change it? Windows is heavily optimized for Arial. Segoe UI looks much worse. | |
| May 19, 2021 at 11:57 | comment | added | trincot | I really tried to get used to see code blocks with Liberation Mono, but I have to give up. It just doesn't look right. Installed a user script to get Consolas back. | |
| May 18, 2021 at 12:03 | history | edited | JNatStaffMod |
edited tags
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| May 18, 2021 at 10:23 | comment | added | user362418 | Liberation Sans is even worse than Ubuntu... | |
| May 18, 2021 at 7:51 | answer | added | Arulkumar | timeline score: 2 | |
| May 18, 2021 at 7:43 | comment | added | T.J. Crowder | Thank you for the "Update 3" updates, I have my old font back. Wholeheartedly agree with you that the whole thing needs to go up a point or two (I'd suggest two). "Here’s the exact font stack we’ve specified that’ll go live on the 10th." I think the block following that is out of date now. | |
| May 18, 2021 at 7:34 | answer | added | Sinatr | timeline score: 7 | |
| May 18, 2021 at 7:02 | comment | added | Recoder | Just wanted to point out that tuning clearType on Windows doesn't help much since the font itself has too little weight. Guess its time to fiddle around with custom userStyles to revert this. | |
| May 18, 2021 at 6:51 | comment | added | blerontin | @trincot I also suddenly get "Liberation Mono" here on my Win7 computer after Update #3. Didn't know that this font exists on my system. Likely you are right as I also have LibreOffice installed. Consolas definitely looks better on Windows. | |
| May 18, 2021 at 5:53 | comment | added | trincot | @AaronShekey, it displays as "Liberation Mono" on my Win10. The next matching font would have been Consolas, which looks much better in my opinion (possibly because that's what I was used to see before). Reading Wikipedia I think I got "Liberation Mono" because of LibreOffice installation. | |
| May 18, 2021 at 3:17 | answer | added | Journeyman GeekMod | timeline score: 2 | |
| May 18, 2021 at 1:59 | comment | added | Journeyman Geek Mod | (Quick note - I've cleaned up a lot of the non specific critical comments like "I hate it" and "it makes my head hurt/eyes bleed/cat pregnant". If there's specific critiques - its probably a good idea to check if its made before and post an answer with full details and screenshots. ) | |
| May 17, 2021 at 22:06 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | @trincot What is it rendering in? If you haven't installed Windows Terminal (Cascadia Mono), or Segoe UI Mono, it should show up as Consolas, which is what we were rendering things in before any of these changes. | |
| May 17, 2021 at 20:55 | comment | added | user400654 | mine falls back to consolas, win 10 chrome. code blocks look fine here | |
| May 17, 2021 at 20:42 | comment | added | trincot | Update 3 on Windows 10 has a bad effect on code. The font looks way too narrow. Checked the ClearType settings. I think it doesn't pick "Segoe UI Mono". It would pick it up with just "Segoe UI". Is Windows 10 supposed to have "Segoe UI Mono"? | |
| May 17, 2021 at 19:57 | history | edited | Aaron ShekeyStaffMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
A third update regarding some "final" choices.
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| May 17, 2021 at 15:47 | answer | added | JCKödel | timeline score: 3 | |
| May 17, 2021 at 13:43 | comment | added | Freemium | With how thin the font has been made it makes the text very unpleasant to read (MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019)). It would be good if it was changed to something else (bolder), or added as a setting which each user could adjust as they need. Personally I think an informative site should opt for better readability rather than fancy designs/fonts. | |
| May 17, 2021 at 10:42 | comment | added | Ron | Chipping in and I know it'll be completely ignored (because who am I) but come on, this is awful. System UI font (Mac, Chrome + Safari) is SO SLOW to read. Sleek rounded characters look good etc but readability suffers when text is "too consistent". There are countless studies out there looking at text legibility. Please check them out via Google Scholar. This is a poor decision, poorly researched and poorly executed. | |
| May 17, 2021 at 7:59 | answer | added | Arulkumar | timeline score: 4 | |
| May 17, 2021 at 6:32 | answer | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | timeline score: 1 | |
| May 17, 2021 at 3:56 | answer | added | polkovnikov.ph | timeline score: 4 | |
| May 17, 2021 at 0:35 | answer | added | Ron | timeline score: 10 | |
| May 16, 2021 at 21:49 | answer | added | Giacomo1968 | timeline score: 4 | |
| May 16, 2021 at 18:30 | comment | added | Mitya | I noticed the font change and then noticed the meta post about font changes. It's really not nice. I've just had to zoom in quite a bit to increase readability. As others have said, I don't really see why striving to look different - yet native, apparently - in different ecosystems is desirable. Coke don't change their logo for different audiences. | |
| May 16, 2021 at 14:40 | comment | added | ChrisW | Why do you describe github.com/StackExchange/Stacks/pull/643 as a "long-term goal" -- how long until it will be merged to production? | |
| May 16, 2021 at 12:37 | comment | added | N. Virgo | Secondly, as a fellow person with poor eyesight, I think it's great that you're increasing the font sizes, but I can't wait for the rest of the text elements to catch up - I generally use the browser's zoom to put the text at a readable size, but currently if I can read the comments comfortably then the main text is too big. You did mention you're working on that, though. | |
| May 16, 2021 at 12:35 | comment | added | N. Virgo | Just as a data point, I love the look of most sites now, but the serif fonts on physics.SE and math.SE look undefinably sort of weird to me. I can't put my finger on why exactly. | |
| May 16, 2021 at 6:53 | comment | added | Milliways | I use Vivaldi (on both Pi & macOS) and didn't notice any difference. I and l appear similar, but I have manually installed San Francisco which DOES distinguish between the 2. | |
| May 16, 2021 at 6:43 | comment | added | Moilleadóir | Arial (though actually Cantarell in my case) is not a good choice for anyone at any time. Have we been transported back to the 1990s? | |
| May 15, 2021 at 23:13 | comment | added | CervEd |
The preformated code blocks with syntax highlighting often look good, but the ones that aren't seem harder to read. This is more problematic with bash/shell blocks that don't do much syntax highlighting to begin with and tend to be pretty crammed into one-liners. (Feedback on Windows)
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| May 15, 2021 at 21:38 | comment | added | Gwyneth Llewelyn |
... interestingly, Wikipedia seems to be using now sans-serif, which basically means 'pick your own font' (or else, the OS & browser will pick one for you instead)
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| May 15, 2021 at 21:18 | comment | added | Gwyneth Llewelyn | macOS Big Sur user here. The experience under Safari, Firefox, MS Edge and Chrome/Brave is superb. I hadn't been following this proposed change, so it came as a huge surprise when suddenly all these SO sites became so much more readable. At least for me, of course; YMMV (Note: I also liked GitHub's change, for the same reason). The only thing that I personally prefer is the amazingly cool FiraCode font for mono, since in most cases, mono is used on SO for displaying code, so, well, FiraCode 😉 (actually I use the Nerd edition with 5000+ glyphs) | |
| May 15, 2021 at 21:03 | comment | added | szx | Please don't use Cascadia Mono, it looks too bold, why not just Consolas or DejaVu Sans Mono? | |
| May 15, 2021 at 20:35 | comment | added | LNK | Well, the main argument for the change seems to be "Like github!1". The referenced blog post doesn't have any meaningful reasoning either apart from "the fonts are good, but these are decades old...". I don't give a flying shit whether SO looks like GitHub or not. I just want the text to be comfortable to read. Which is not anymore. It's extremely thin and painful to look at on macOS. | |
| May 15, 2021 at 6:57 | answer | added | Alf Eaton | timeline score: 4 | |
| May 14, 2021 at 13:12 | comment | added | PcMan | Not an expert in any form... But I noticed the site is now significantly harder to read. The fonts are smaller than my comfort threshold, So much that I have changed default scaling on SE pages to 125% (which unfortunately blurs many font elements) | |
| May 14, 2021 at 5:40 | answer | added | Abel Melquiades Callejo | timeline score: 4 | |
| May 13, 2021 at 21:55 | comment | added | Amazon Dies In Darkness | People are still using fonts that web sites push on them? Learn CSS and use your own fonts (and font sizes), people! | |
| May 13, 2021 at 21:15 | comment | added | zcoop98 | @Nzall Yes, I am; it's a simple setup step that might help improve some people's experience across the board, on way more than just Stack (it applies to fonts across the board). That's not overkill, and doesn't equate to a bazooka lol. | |
| May 13, 2021 at 20:58 | comment | added | Nzall | @zcoop98 Sorry, are you SERIOUSLY recommending I change my WINDOWS settings so a single website doesn't have an unreadable font, while all other websites do NOT have this issue? That's like using a bazooka to kill a fly... | |
| May 13, 2021 at 20:24 | comment | added | jakub.g |
Please put Consolas back before Cascadia for Windows users (reason here: Cascadia is much bolder than any other font, and impossible to uninstall)
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| May 13, 2021 at 19:25 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | The new fonts used for comments (smaller, thinner) on Android makes them more difficult to read. This is not a improvement. | |
| May 13, 2021 at 19:02 | answer | added | c69 | timeline score: 14 | |
| May 13, 2021 at 18:54 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | @CaveJohnson Ah, you're right, it did. We ought to be keeping those put at their original size. Hey, I'm getting old too! | |
| May 13, 2021 at 18:50 | comment | added | Cave Johnson | Did the font size change for comments? It seems pretty small when I read on a mobile device. I have to really strain my eyes (or just pinch to zoom). I am getting old but I hope that's not the only reason 😅 | |
| May 13, 2021 at 15:22 | answer | added | ColleenV | timeline score: 2 | |
| May 13, 2021 at 9:47 | answer | added | CaiB | timeline score: 1 | |
| May 13, 2021 at 8:54 | answer | added | Hong Ooi | timeline score: 6 | |
| May 12, 2021 at 22:01 | comment | added | zcoop98 | Just wanted to chime in and say tuning ClearType on Windows measurably improved the look and readability of fonts on SE for me on my machine. If you haven't tried it yet and don't have it disabled intentionally, you should give it a try. | |
| May 12, 2021 at 20:09 | comment | added | Recoder | Arial is actually more readable for me on Windows. Segoe UI looks too thin and is uncomfortable for reading texts. | |
| May 12, 2021 at 19:06 | comment | added | psdpainter | @ruffin I dread having to do this, but you're right. | |
| May 12, 2021 at 17:48 | comment | added | Peter | This font change introduces difficulty for me to read the text on stack websites, specifically, the monospace font used on windows for syntax highlighting looks fat and is hard to read, the segue ui font as others have commented, looks like a comic sans-inspired design. Why isn't this an option for users to decide to use? | |
| May 12, 2021 at 17:36 | comment | added | ruffin | @psdpainter It may finally be time to start playing around with user stylesheets again. | |
| May 12, 2021 at 16:54 | answer | added | Makoto | timeline score: 1 | |
| May 12, 2021 at 16:23 | comment | added | Elliot Yu | Also I'm glad that you are considering dropping Ubuntu fonts too, because non-Ubuntu Linux can still have Ubuntu fonts installed, and using Ubuntu fonts on those systems wouldn't be consistent with the system fonts. For example, on Arch, the very popular ttf-google-fonts-git package provides Ubuntu fonts. On Ubuntu variants with alternative DEs like X(L/K)ubuntu, the fonts-ubuntu package comes installed as well. Since users may have chosen these variants precisely because they didn't like the look of vanilla Ubuntu, giving Ubuntu fonts priority wouldn't be appropriate for them. | |
| May 12, 2021 at 15:26 | history | edited | Aaron ShekeyStaffMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Considering some options
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| May 12, 2021 at 14:39 | comment | added | psdpainter | I'm a Windows user, and I've never liked Segoe UI. Looks decent on an Xbox, but not on the web. Give us the choice of toggling system fonts. Arial might be old, but it is readable. | |
| May 12, 2021 at 13:32 | answer | added | Outfrost | timeline score: 38 | |
| May 12, 2021 at 11:34 | comment | added | Emil Jeřábek | I wanted to have the clean logic of trying to show the system font where appropriate: you keep saying “system font”, but that’s not what these fonts are. They are actually system user interface fonts. So, they are appropriate nowhere for body text. They are designed for things like window titles or menu items, which are short phrases. As the font self-description says, “The new Ubuntu Font Family was started to enable the personality of Ubuntu to be seen and felt in every menu, button and dialog”. It is sheer luck that the Windows UI font is passable as a general-purpose font. | |
| May 12, 2021 at 7:25 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | My main complaint: bold is too bold. | |
| May 12, 2021 at 6:32 | answer | added | Journeyman GeekMod | timeline score: 7 | |
| May 12, 2021 at 6:30 | comment | added | Alex | My eyes hurt on windows, is this normal? When can I expect to have gotten used to it? | |
| May 12, 2021 at 2:35 | comment | added | Andrew | You've made a few very subjective statements as if they are objectively true - claiming something "looks better" is subjective, not objective, as is "improve readability across all contexts" readability of a specific font compared to another is very subjective to the person doing the reading. | |
| May 12, 2021 at 0:43 | comment | added | Naman | So starting now, should we start creating repositories on StackOverflow? Or post our questions and answers on GitHub? | |
| May 11, 2021 at 22:59 | comment | added | David Thomas | While the site remains perfectly useable on Android, and iPad, it's an unmitigated visual disaster on Ubuntu 20.04. Please, this cannot - or, rather, should not - be allowed to persist, it's quite literally both painful and a constant deterrent to contributing to the site in any way (I don't regard composing answers on a mobile device to be acceptable means of contribution in any meaningful way). | |
| May 11, 2021 at 20:49 | comment | added | Ollie | Switching on ClearType helps with some of the problems, for all you Windows users, like making "I E" look like I E and not an E with a thick back, but it's not a magic solution. Things are still kinda swirly. | |
| May 11, 2021 at 19:41 | comment | added | hkotsubo | Using Chrome in Ubuntu, some diacritics are not properly displayed. This ruins the proper visualization of - IMO - one of the most classic and famous answers in SE's history. This is unacceptable (I know it's probably a corner case, yet, it's a notorious answer and should deserve a better treatment) :-) | |
| May 11, 2021 at 18:55 | comment | added | 17 of 26 | As a nearly 50 year old viewing the site on Windows 10, this change is terrible for my aging eyes. | |
| May 11, 2021 at 18:30 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod |
Also considering dropping system-ui because of non-English Windows. github.com/StackExchange/Stacks/pull/642
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| May 11, 2021 at 18:23 | comment | added | Elliot Yu |
On non-Ubuntu linux, vanilla fontconfig will set system-ui to Cantarell, so putting system-ui at the top of the font stack will end up pairing Cantarell with Ubuntu Mono, which causes the mismatch described in this answer.
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| May 11, 2021 at 17:38 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | It's possible to drop Ubuntu, but I wanted to have the clean logic of trying to show the system font where appropriate. When I worked at GitHub, I remember a bit of conversation about where we should draw the line there. "System fonts but only for macOS and Windows" felt weird, but that's what was ultimately shipped. | |
| May 11, 2021 at 17:27 | comment | added | Emil Jeřábek |
Indeed, GitHub uses -apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,Segoe UI,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,Apple Color Emoji,Segoe UI Emoji, not the Ubuntu font which is completely inappropriate for the purpose of displaying large amounts of text to read.
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| May 11, 2021 at 15:15 | comment | added | hkotsubo | It's curious that the post mentions GitHub, because in github.com I can read all the text without having a headache - and more important: no need to zoom it, or use userscripts or whatever. I'd also like to add that I never had to zoom any page to properly read it, until yesterday (thanks, SE!) | |
| May 11, 2021 at 14:51 | answer | added | Arulkumar | timeline score: 3 | |
| May 11, 2021 at 8:58 | answer | added | Adám | timeline score: 7 | |
| May 11, 2021 at 8:18 | answer | added | T.J. Crowder | timeline score: 114 | |
| May 11, 2021 at 7:32 | answer | added | Marijn | timeline score: 1 | |
| May 11, 2021 at 7:29 | answer | added | Jonathan Potter | timeline score: 47 | |
| May 11, 2021 at 7:26 | answer | added | Resistance Is Futile | timeline score: 23 | |
| May 11, 2021 at 6:56 | answer | added | Jenayah | timeline score: 5 | |
| May 11, 2021 at 5:33 | answer | added | Ted Lyngmo | timeline score: 16 | |
| May 11, 2021 at 4:47 | comment | added | matthew-e-brown | As a Windows 10 user with an old, 23" 1080p display, I am definitely against this change. The sans-serif font is just slightly too thin for me to read comfortably, and at the same time the monospace font looks... almost blurry. My eyes are watering after reading the top couple answers here. | |
| May 11, 2021 at 0:22 | comment | added | aepot | I love SO Community, it makes a lightning-fast solution fixing any such Update. Thanks everyone who helped me to revert this. Segoe UI in current configuration is eye-bleeding font. | |
| May 11, 2021 at 0:20 | comment | added | Phil | Another Windows 10 + Chrome user here who hates this change. I think it looks even worse on StackOverflow dark mode. Code fonts look blown out (font-weight) and fuzzy at the edges. Smaller fonts like in comments are spindly, especially when italicised. | |
| May 10, 2021 at 23:31 | comment | added | Nick | Ewww (Windows 10). Can we have the old ones back please? | |
| May 10, 2021 at 23:30 | answer | added | Shog9 | timeline score: 4 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 23:26 | comment | added | Boann | The new fonts don't line up with other UI elements properly. I wish I could tell you more, but I don't know what fonts they are. | |
| May 10, 2021 at 22:34 | answer | added | zcoop98 | timeline score: 5 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 21:48 | comment | added | Ollie | I kind of understand the rationale behind this, but it's just not great. Next time we should do a 12-site test like with the 3-vote close options, or an alpha test. | |
| May 10, 2021 at 21:11 | comment | added | val - disappointed in SE | I like the Ubuntu font, but it isn't something I'd like to see on SE or system-wide. It isn't a default font on KUbuntu (and vanilla Ubuntu too IIRC)! | |
| May 10, 2021 at 20:35 | answer | added | convex | timeline score: 17 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 20:21 | answer | added | 10 Rep | timeline score: 65 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 19:48 | answer | added | serge | timeline score: 5 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 19:41 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | @Jonas Serif fonts didn't change. The parts of the page that are sans-serif did. | |
| May 10, 2021 at 19:35 | comment | added | DinoCoderSaurus | Grainy not sharp (Firefox/Windows). Very taxing on these old eyes. But since the Medicare cohort is not the target audience...... | |
| May 10, 2021 at 19:29 | comment | added | serge | Oh my eyes... this font seems piexlized, too much curves, I am on Windows Chrome.... Don't like it... | |
| May 10, 2021 at 19:28 | comment | added | Soleil | Cascadia mono is definitely not an improvement ! I reverted to Consolas. Segoe, yes it is better. | |
| May 10, 2021 at 19:27 | comment | added | jng224 | On Physics, the system font is not applied everywhere – it appears on usernames, "edit"/"follow" etc., tags, also in the inbox, but not in the actual title or question/answers. See imgur.com/a/9cjb0pY | |
| May 10, 2021 at 19:15 | comment | added | Nina Scholz |
what an awful font for code 4 =>. look at four. and no ligatures.
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| May 10, 2021 at 19:13 | comment | added | raj | This is a bad change. At least on AskUbuntu - site that I visit (or visited) most often the Ubuntu font is much less readable than plain sans-serif, be it Arial, Liberation or whatever. I get tired just from browsing the site. It may look as a nice nice idea for someone who is only looking at Stack sites, but definitely not for someone who actually reads them. The whole effect of this will be that it will simply discourage me from visiting the site too often, just to save my eyes. :( | |
| May 10, 2021 at 18:52 | answer | added | rydwolf | timeline score: 22 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 18:36 | comment | added | Wyck | Descenders are clipped. q and g now look the same in an edit box in Chrome Windows. (For example, when typing in the search box, or when editing a post to change the title.) | |
| May 10, 2021 at 18:32 | comment | added | TylerH |
@MathiasR.Jessen Update the selector to this so that it doesn't change code fonts: body:not(#chat-body) *:not(textarea):not(code)
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| May 10, 2021 at 18:30 | answer | added | Peter Turner | timeline score: 3 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 18:21 | comment | added | Ollie | @leonheess meta.stackexchange.com/questions/364279/… | |
| May 10, 2021 at 18:21 | comment | added | leonheess | Very helpful: Custom Fonts User Script: Revert the Font Updates | |
| May 10, 2021 at 18:20 | comment | added | leonheess | Please make this a toggle in the settings. The fonts look truly horrific | |
| May 10, 2021 at 18:04 | comment | added | turivishal | I am not going to refresh my default filter page as long as possible :{. | |
| May 10, 2021 at 17:58 | answer | added | user3840170 | timeline score: 28 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 17:57 | comment | added | Mathias R. Jessen |
@TylerH Thanks, this works well for post body text, any idea how to mimic the previous font style for code blocks on Windows?
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| May 10, 2021 at 17:43 | answer | added | Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog | timeline score: 7 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 17:37 | answer | added | joelostblom | timeline score: 24 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 17:35 | comment | added | TylerH |
@SurpriseDog You can use body *:not(textarea) { font-family: arial !important; } in a custom user style to return to the old fonts.
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| May 10, 2021 at 17:33 | comment | added | alephzero | @ACuriousMind "There are entire sites like Physics with a serif font as their main font." - true, and it is a brain-dead typographic decision to have non-lining numerals by default on a science site. But experience says we shouldn't expect any better from SE, of course. | |
| May 10, 2021 at 17:30 | answer | added | Patrick Roberts | timeline score: 33 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 17:29 | answer | added | Zanna | timeline score: 10 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 17:26 | comment | added | Ollie | Could we have this as an option in our preferences? That way it'd look OK across most browsers, instead of excluding most in favor of, seemingly, macOS. | |
| May 10, 2021 at 17:25 | answer | added | SuperStormer | timeline score: 13 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 17:13 | answer | added | Zombo | timeline score: 49 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 17:12 | comment | added | Konrad Rudolph | Just chiming in to offset all the complaints, and to say that the change is a vast improvement on macOS with Chrome. There are possibly very legitimate issues, both with the idea behind then change and with the execution, but at least on some platforms it works incredibly well. | |
| May 10, 2021 at 17:12 | comment | added | Ollie | @SurpriseDog Try the userscript. | |
| May 10, 2021 at 17:05 | comment | added | SurpriseDog | @FreeMan Since my previous comment on this was deleted, can someone tell me what the original font on linux was so I can go back to it? | |
| May 10, 2021 at 16:57 | answer | added | GlorfindelMod | timeline score: 7 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 16:51 | answer | added | Wezl | timeline score: 4 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 16:50 | answer | added | Ollie | timeline score: 9 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 16:45 | answer | added | Nick is tired | timeline score: 197 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 16:42 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | @JasonAller The editor has always been monospace, unless you're using the beta of the rich text editor. Makes it easy to create tables prior to tables being a thing. | |
| May 10, 2021 at 16:38 | history | edited | Aaron ShekeyStaffMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Shipped!
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| May 10, 2021 at 16:33 | comment | added | Jason Aller | I see screenshots of the UI, but none showing the effect on the editor. On Windows the editor font is now bold, and I think it didn't used to be monospace, but it appears to be now. Can the change to the editor be undone? | |
| May 10, 2021 at 16:29 | answer | added | 41686d6564 | timeline score: 29 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 16:25 | answer | added | GlorfindelMod | timeline score: 4 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 16:24 | comment | added | user362418 | I use Ubuntu Linux and see Segoe UI because I installed it manually. But Segoe UI is definitely not a "system" font (my system font is still Ubuntu, it's configured in DE settings and my browser settings). I'm not sure that calling it "system fonts" is correct. | |
| May 10, 2021 at 3:59 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | @MarkRansom I’ll update the post when it’s ready. Probably around 11 or noon central if there aren’t any fires to put out. It’s my Sunday night at the moment and that means watching episodes of The Larry Sanders show. 🤗 | |
| May 10, 2021 at 3:12 | comment | added | Mark Ransom | @Matsemann bad keming has always been a problem. | |
| May 9, 2021 at 21:43 | answer | added | trlkly | timeline score: 154 | |
| May 9, 2021 at 19:38 | comment | added | Matsemann | I once had an issue on SE where "click" read like "dick" everywhere softwareengineering.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5180/… | |
| May 9, 2021 at 15:18 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | @abelmelquiadescallejo Yes! Me and the boys were thinking of fun conspiracies and this is what we landed on. 😛 Nah, I asked a volunteer to get me a screenshot on Windows and their Chrome was full of extensions and a bit of personal info, so they switched to Firefox. I did the same on Linux. Personally, I use Safari and Brave on macOS. And then I got busy and didn’t include iOS and Android just to mess with you. | |
| May 9, 2021 at 8:10 | comment | added | Abel Melquiades Callejo | Did you purposely not put Chrome screenshots because you know everyone is using it? | |
| May 8, 2021 at 23:33 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | @Boann My bet’s on Segoe UI, since it’s listed first in our stack. Interesting! | |
| May 8, 2021 at 20:39 | comment | added | Boann | @AaronShekey I have all the Windows fonts installed. | |
| May 8, 2021 at 14:54 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | @Boann Font selection has nothing to do with user agent strings. It will choose the first font that’s available on your machine. 👍 | |
| May 8, 2021 at 12:15 | comment | added | Boann | I use Linux with a Windows user agent string, so who knows what's going to happen. | |
| May 8, 2021 at 4:00 | comment | added | David C. Rankin | It seems arbitrary to simply pick Ubuntu out of thin air to be representative for Linux. What about openSUSE, Archlinux, Debian, etc... We will see how it goes, but this looks like another solution in search of a problem. I'd rather see Stack lead than just follow what github does... | |
| May 7, 2021 at 19:15 | answer | added | andselisk | timeline score: 12 | |
| May 7, 2021 at 14:51 | answer | added | Luuklag | timeline score: 45 | |
| May 7, 2021 at 14:30 | comment | added | Aconcagua | There are so many linux distributions that might need to be considered – and BSD currently is not considered at all in the list. With any new system one might have to consider maintenance will require more effort. Having doubts about this being a very good idea. One font for all systems might mean less hassle, though this does not solve the problem of innumerous screen resolutions existing. | |
| May 7, 2021 at 14:22 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | @ACuriousMind I would like to address those communities separately since a relative few use serif fonts. | |
| May 7, 2021 at 14:18 | comment | added | Aconcagua | @AaronShekey Running on Devuan with LXDE on private machine (Win10 for work – forcefully...). | |
| May 7, 2021 at 14:00 | answer | added | SirStopIt | timeline score: 1 | |
| May 7, 2021 at 13:43 | comment | added | ACuriousMind | "We really don't do much with serifs anyway" - There are entire sites like Physics with a serif font as their main font. Are we to take from that that we are not really being considered at all by SE's designers currently? | |
| May 7, 2021 at 11:33 | answer | added | Swisstone | timeline score: 22 | |
| May 7, 2021 at 9:08 | comment | added | Konrad Höffner | I would be so happy to see code blocks in Inconsolata-g, my favourite programming and default system monospace font. | |
| May 7, 2021 at 4:22 | comment | added | Chindraba |
Somehow I missed the update to show the proposed font stack. It has some errors. system-ui will select a font based on the browser's decision on almost every browser and OS. Notable exceptions are IE, Firefox, Opera Mini, and Firefox on Android. Worse yet, ui-monospace will only work on Safari and Safari on iOS, all other broswers on MacOS and iOS will not get the San Francisco Mono, instead falling through to who knows what. In both cases, as I do not have any of the named fonts installed, my system falls through to the ultimate fallback, which is perfect for me.
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| May 7, 2021 at 2:53 | comment | added | Chindraba |
Not relevant to my answer and raised in a prior comment. Raising it here, as a single point to not get lost in a multi-point comment. What method is being used to control what font will be used? Non-exclusive options include; User-Agent parsing, JS-based feature testing, well-crafted font stack, use of system-ui, or other ui-* font-family generic names, in the font stack, and CSS media queries. There may be other methods I've not considered. Unless it's a secret for some reason, it'd be nice to know how the selection is made so we, as users of the network, can do some of our own testing.
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| May 7, 2021 at 0:45 | history | edited | Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Temporary workaround for bulletin bug
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| May 7, 2021 at 0:28 | answer | added | iBug says Reinstate Monica | timeline score: 15 | |
| May 6, 2021 at 19:15 | comment | added | Martin Bean | I would prefer Source Sans/Serif/Code Pro series of fonts. And I’m sure other people would have their own font preferences too, @ErkinAlpGüney | |
| May 6, 2021 at 18:47 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | @prash Shoot! I'm on a pristine VirtualBox image from osboxes.org so I don't think anything's different on my end. Good luck! | |
| May 6, 2021 at 18:32 | comment | added | prash | @AaronShekey Maybe there is something misconfigured on my system then. This is how it looks for me, Ubuntu on top, Dejavu Sans bottom. i.imgur.com/flOAdCy.jpg. Thanks for your clarifications! I'll go fix my setup. | |
| May 6, 2021 at 18:29 | comment | added | Erkin Alp Güney | This is my screenshot of this post, taken with all fonts replaced by Adobe Source Sans/Serif/Code: i.sstatic.net/3WRFu.png | |
| May 6, 2021 at 18:09 | history | edited | Aaron ShekeyStaffMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Add the exact CSS
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| May 6, 2021 at 18:05 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod |
@ErkinAlpGüney So would our marketing designers. You'll notice our marketing pages are set in Source Sans. We can justify the font downloads there since the audience is so much smaller. Fun fact, when I worked at Adobe we gave those typeface designers lots of feedback that we'd like to discern between I and l so that's why their lowercase ls have curves. I also use Source Sans in a side project.
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| May 6, 2021 at 18:02 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | @prash That post looks ok in "Ubuntu" 🤙 Here's a screenshot. | |
| May 6, 2021 at 18:01 | comment | added | Erkin Alp Güney | I would prefer Source Sans/Serif/Code Pro series of fonts. | |
| May 6, 2021 at 17:49 | comment | added | prash |
@AaronShekey I see. I was just about to propose defaulting to DejaVu Sans :-) As a user (and mod) of linguistics.SE, we often come across some weird characters. Ubuntu font fails to render some of them, but DejaVu Sans handles them just fine. Here is an example: linguistics.stackexchange.com/questions/34810/…
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| May 6, 2021 at 17:43 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod |
@prash Defaulting to sans-serif does not render the system font. sans-serif on Ubuntu renders as DejaVu Sans. Specifying Ubuntu ensures that Ubuntu renders in its system font. We can include more fonts from various linux distros if needed, but I want to make the point absolutely clear: sans-serif does not equal your system font.
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| May 6, 2021 at 17:26 | comment | added | prash | @AaronShekey I am on Linux too (Arch, FWIW). Why not just default to sans-serif on all Linux? The user can set it to whatever they want in their browser settings. On Ubuntu, it will default to Ubuntu font anyway. | |
| May 6, 2021 at 15:52 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | @Aconcagua Which linux are you running? We could add in the system font for that if needed. | |
| May 6, 2021 at 11:18 | answer | added | cubick | timeline score: 8 | |
| May 6, 2021 at 10:12 | comment | added | Aconcagua | Not in favour of MS clear type fonts it would be nice if there was an easy way to swap back to Arial or any other preferred font. Ideally any relevant HTML tag would get another class attribute so that it would be easy to re-style e. g. according to this super user answer. | |
| May 6, 2021 at 10:05 | comment | added | Aconcagua | What about non-ubuntu linux? | |
| May 6, 2021 at 7:23 | comment | added | Tetsujin | @Milliways - San Fransisco is not a user font, it's a system font. As such it doesn't appear in Font Book etc. Initially, Apple kept a tight license on it, meaning it could only be used for Apple product mockups etc, but they seem to have relaxed that in recent times. You can download it if you need it as a user font, but you don't need to for it to display correctly - developer.apple.com/fonts | |
| May 6, 2021 at 7:10 | comment | added | Milliways | I decided to see what this would look like BUT San Francisco does not seem to be available on my macOS BigSur | |
| May 6, 2021 at 5:35 | answer | added | Chindraba | timeline score: 48 | |
| May 6, 2021 at 2:21 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | I'll leave that to Aaron, but it might make a better answer than a comment, @Chindraba :) | |
| May 6, 2021 at 2:19 | comment | added | Chindraba | The waiting continues. How about the bulk of the comment, before mention of dark mode? | |
| May 6, 2021 at 2:15 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | Many of our sites have custom designs that do not work in dark mode, @Chindraba Making the network dark would require significant design work to actually have it look good across the platform. The only "easy" set of sites would be sites with the default/beta theme. | |
| May 6, 2021 at 2:13 | comment | added | Chindraba | Not related directly, just if they're gonna tweak CSS across the board, adding the CSS for dark mode at the same time might be less of a burden. Or not. Just asking? | |
| May 6, 2021 at 2:11 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | @Chindraba ... Really confused why dark mode has anything to do with font choices. | |
| May 6, 2021 at 2:03 | comment | added | Chindraba | How is the "system font" determined when I visit the site? Is browser detection used to choose the CSS to supply? What assurance is there that the selected font is really available on my system? Has Linux been replaced with Ubuntu, or is the rest of Linux just relegated to "fallback" mode? Is this change, needed or not, going to be accompanied by the implementation of dark mode for the rest of the sites? | |
| May 5, 2021 at 23:56 | answer | added | Davbog | timeline score: 171 | |
| May 5, 2021 at 22:20 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | @JonEricson Had a look on macOS and it looks good! | |
| May 5, 2021 at 16:56 | answer | added | Kit | timeline score: 4 | |
| May 5, 2021 at 16:56 | history | edited | bad_coder | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Fixed typo.
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| May 5, 2021 at 16:44 | comment | added | Jon Ericson | A welcome change as long as it doesn't break Tony the Pony.;-) | |
| May 5, 2021 at 16:38 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | @Zoethe1337Princess I emphatically agree, but alas, here we are. This is the quickest, least bytes-over-the-wire way we can get to more modern fonts. | |
| May 5, 2021 at 16:31 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump | Would still be nice if all the fonts made the difference between l and I (bonus points for not noticing which is which) substantially more noticeable, at least along the lines of what the Ubuntu font does. | |
| May 5, 2021 at 13:03 | history | edited | PhilippeStaffMod |
featured
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| May 4, 2021 at 20:30 | answer | added | Rob | timeline score: 5 | |
| May 4, 2021 at 20:25 | history | edited | Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
edited title
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| May 4, 2021 at 19:48 | history | edited | Luuklag | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
typo
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| May 4, 2021 at 19:45 | history | edited | PhilippeStaffMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Clarified network wide
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| May 4, 2021 at 19:42 | comment | added | Aaron Shekey StaffMod | @DavidPostill This change is global, affecting the whole network. If your network has the default font, that'll change on the 10th. | |
| May 4, 2021 at 19:39 | answer | added | Adám | timeline score: 75 | |
| May 4, 2021 at 19:39 | comment | added | ColleenV | Hopefully this will prevent issues like 'pom’ getting mistaken for ‘porn’ in the future. | |
| May 4, 2021 at 19:38 | comment | added | DavidPostill | Is there a schedule for the roll out to the rest of the network? | |
| May 4, 2021 at 19:37 | history | edited | PhilippeStaffMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
title change
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| May 4, 2021 at 19:31 | history | asked | Aaron ShekeyStaffMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
