Timeline for answer to Feature test: Thank you reaction by Zoe - Save the data dump
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| Feb 21, 2021 at 1:48 | history | edited | QHarr | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
corrected typos to help all users understand
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| Jun 21, 2020 at 16:25 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump | @einpoklum yep, hence "100% of people who can leave thank you comments, provided they're not OP of the question or the answer it's posted on, can also vote.". Take one of the questions with tens, if not hundreds of "thank you" comments - only one of those can be from the question OP. Everyone else, provided they're not commenting on their own answer, must have 50 rep, and therefore be able to vote. | |
| Jun 21, 2020 at 15:25 | comment | added | einpoklum | Can't people comment on their own question's answers regardless of reputation? | |
| Jun 21, 2020 at 3:53 | comment | added | NotThatGuy | I rarely vote, but it's not because I don't know how the system works, but rather because the times when I actually care (when I'm downvoting a highly upvoted post) is when votes are least effective, I don't like that votes are shown on my profile, I have extremely high standards (for upvoting at least), upvoting is binary (+1 for good and also +1 for absolutely amazing doesn't really work for me) and I don't like using my own reputation for voting (for downvotes / bounties). And no, that might not make sense, but it's more about how I feel than what I know is logical. | |
| Jun 20, 2020 at 18:45 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dump | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jun 20, 2020 at 18:44 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump | @PeterMortensen yeah. I can't spell for crap :D | |
| Jun 20, 2020 at 18:25 | comment | added | Peter Mortensen | Re "semi-forgotten about voting system": Do you mean "semi-forgotten-about voting system"? Perhaps rephrase? | |
| Jun 20, 2020 at 18:21 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump | There's quite a bit of evidence at this point, including evidence posted as answers to this question. | |
| Jun 20, 2020 at 17:06 | comment | added | T.S. | Evidence : stackoverflow.com/a/62479801/1704458 | |
| Jun 20, 2020 at 11:28 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dump | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 1 character in body
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| Jun 20, 2020 at 11:19 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump | It only shows for low-rep users (I don't remember how low qualifies for the banner), so that makes sense. Would still be interesting to see an experiment on that | |
| Jun 20, 2020 at 11:14 | comment | added | cglacet | Our eyes are used to ignore static content, I don't recall seeing this one in particular so I couldn't tell. But I'm pretty sure a small and dynamic message is more noticable than a big static banner | |
| Jun 20, 2020 at 11:12 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump | @cglacet we also technically have this already. There's a banner on the top of the page that shows up for low-rep users from time to time saying (roughly; from memory): "Welcome back! Don't forget to upvote helpful posts". Its impact is apparently minimal. | |
| Jun 20, 2020 at 11:10 | comment | added | cglacet | I don't feel it would be too intrusive because it would only show a few times (maybe 2-3) so the new user is aware of the "rule". It's like a dynamic tutorial. | |
| Jun 20, 2020 at 11:08 | comment | added | ChrisW | @Catija Maybe the new feature should be enabled only for users who don't have permission to vote? | |
| Jun 20, 2020 at 11:06 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump | @cglacet It is, but if it ends up being too intrusive, all that will happen is that someone will make a userscript or a uBlock rule that nukes the popup. Banner blindness is also a major issue. They should be running research on the best way to resolve that, preferably by educating instead of nagging (ref. banner blindness), but we instead get a useless "thanks" feature with no impact. | |
| Jun 20, 2020 at 10:58 | comment | added | cglacet | Is it possible to detect text selection? If it is you could suggest people who do select text or click links in an answer to upvote it. The time spent on reading an answer could also be used to make that suggestion. There are many ways to "teach" new users how you want them to behave. Voting is not very warm and welcoming I guess that's why people prefer to "talk" and say thank you. That makes total sense to me. | |
| Jun 19, 2020 at 7:49 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump | "We're not suppose to train people to not feel hurt about the fact that their work wasn't good" - I don't think we should either. It sucks when it's not good enough, but the point is to take it as feedback on the post, and not as an insult. " have nearly 1000 downvotes on a single post and the only thing that keeps me from not dwelling on every single one is because I don't get notifications for every single one.." - but does every downvote have the same effect as an outright toxic comment? Some people associate those two, and that's what I keep trying to push back against. | |
| Jun 19, 2020 at 7:38 | comment | added | Scratte | @Catija The tour is not a tutorial. It's a brief introduction. There are also no warnings about all the ways that things can go wrong if one does't pay attention. Example: I have to actually explain to users that they only have one chance for the edit-into-the-reopen queue in comments directed at one user at a time! It doesn't scale, and for all those that do not get one-to-one hands-on advice, it's a less than optimal experience for a user to have to go through the help center to find out just what they need to do. Do they need to read all the pages? Can they focus on just 3? Which 3? | |
| Jun 19, 2020 at 7:31 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | @Scratte I agree that a better tutorial ("better" because the tour is... at least in the most minor away a tutorial) would be amazing. I still don't think that we will ever get the majority of people comfortable with getting downvotes and that the better goal is helping them better avoid getting downvotes by doing a better job with creating better posts from the outset. (And before anyone accuses me of planning to get rid of downvotes - I have zero interest in that in 99% of cases) | |
| Jun 19, 2020 at 7:26 | comment | added | Scratte | @Catija I think you're focusing on the wrong thing here. We're not suppose to train people to not feel hurt about the fact that their work wasn't good. We're suppose to train them in how to use the site and that a downvote means that they need to work on how to make better contributions. If no one tells them how to or what's expected of them, they just keep failing and that's not very motivating. They need: Better guidance and less confusion. They need a Stack Overflow tutorial! | |
| Jun 19, 2020 at 7:19 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | All that is to say... I don't see that we could ever "train" new users to not take downvotes personally. We can help them get more specific guidance on how to write great questions or answers in a number of ways to prevent those downvotes from ever happening... we could do more with mentoring or a sandbox phase where people can workshop their posts... but I don't think that teaching people to not be hurt is something we should be leaning on - ever. It's not a "winning" solution. | |
| Jun 19, 2020 at 7:16 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | I know it's easy to say "it's not personal" but that doesn't make it not hurt. If you spend time making something and later find it wrapped around a piece of gum and thrown it in the trash, it hurts! Even if you don't know who threw it away or why. Even if you're five and it was a really ugly piece of spaghetti art. Every question (ok, most) represents someone who is stuck with a problem. Even if they don't take the downvote personally as a downvote... they do take their post being downvoted or closed personally because it's preventing them from getting a solution to their problem. | |
| Jun 19, 2020 at 7:12 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | I would like to push back a bit on the downvotes thing. I know that downvotes aren't personal - I was a user for years before being hired and I've gotten my fair share of downvotes before and since... mostly since... but, as much as we repeat this mantra and tell people "it's not personal"... it will never actually be not personal to people. I have nearly 1000 downvotes on a single post and the only thing that keeps me from not dwelling on every single one is because I don't get notifications for every single one... I only see that it's been downvoted yet again when my rep change is +8. | |
| Jun 19, 2020 at 7:08 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | I absolutely agree that doing a better job at teaching users about privileges, particularly voting, is something we need to do, and soon. We've started more training based on privilege unlocks - currently it's rolled out as we release updates to existing tools or release new ones - for example, the new info boxes for close reviewing and the one for the follow tool. As you say, I'm very concerned that voting is so low as it is and it leaves so many people feeling unrewarded for their efforts. | |
| Jun 19, 2020 at 7:05 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | That said, what means the most to me when receiving thanks is when someone is specific about what I did that helped them. So, based on that alone, a general "thanks" reaction would be unlikely to be as impactful as someone taking the time to write a comment saying "Thank you so much for your detailed and thoughtful answer - and for taking the time to post it so that everyone can appreciate it". | |
| Jun 19, 2020 at 6:58 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | "Why do you think they write "thanks" comments instead of upvoting?" - There's two things here... yes, to this but... also is it actually instead of... What percentage do both? As to why, the general understanding I have is that people like having a way to actually thank a person who helps them. They like being able to be recognized as having shown appreciation - this can be cultural or personal... but it definitely exists. I'm predisposed to saying "I'm sorry", others are predisposed to saying "thanks"... and it means something to be appreciated. | |
| Jun 18, 2020 at 21:01 | history | answered | Zoe - Save the data dump | CC BY-SA 4.0 |