The Wayback Machine - https://web.archive.org/web/20110716065458/http://www.linuxjournal.com:80/content/linux-desktop-weve-arrived

The Linux Desktop: We've Arrived.

Gnome 3 Desktop

Linux Desktop articles are all over the place. I can hardly open up a browser without tripping over one. Most of them are negative whine-fests, complaining that Linux is too hard for new users, or has become too dumbed-down for technical users, or the fonts are ugly, or the next generation desktop environments are too different, or... well I could go on, but I think you get the point. So today, I feel like whining about the whiners.  Give em' some of their own medicine, and bring something a bit different to the table: A positive viewpoint on the state of the Linux Desktop. Don't look so shocked, just keep reading.

We have what we need folks! The Linux Desktop has arrived. The solid foundation of GNU's tools and the Linux kernel; topped with many desktop environment choices and all the wonderful Linux desktop applications has got us there. Due to the hard work of the entire Linux developer community there is now a viable, open, free, full desktop computing alternative for those who seek it out. There are user friendly distributions out there for non-techies, and highly technical ones for those who prefer to build a custom desktop experience. Available in your favorite distribution's repositories are three modern and beautiful desktop environments to choose from. Ubuntu's Unity is becoming more polished and user friendly. KDE is mature and highly configurable. And Gnome 3 takes the minimal, "get out of my way so I can get stuff done" desktop philosophy to new heights.  For those that prefer more classic desktop experiences there is the fast, stable, fully featured xfce4; and the super-fast lxde desktop. For the nerdiest of the nerds there are multitudes of fully configurable window managers out there; from tiling powerhouses like Xmonad, to flexible floating window managers like Openbox. Linux users have never had more choice and quality available for their desktops. 

Desktop applications on Linux have also matured greatly in past few years. No matter what your task is, Linux truly has an application for it. In many cases I find that I can get what I need to do done faster on Linux than the other two popular desktop platforms. For text editing, scripting, light programming, and writing I use Geany; my favorite text editor. For music management I use Quodlibet. For editing and sending documents to those other two platforms, Libreoffice does the trick. The latest versions of Thunderbird and Firefox handle email and browsing duties flawlessly. And for the curious, I use two different laptops, my work lappy runs Arch Linux and Gnome 3, and my personal lappy runs Arch and Xmonad. 

Is the desktop experience on Linux perfect? I reply to this question with a question, Perfect for whom? Apple's OSX is perfect for folks who can conform to that restricted environment.  Windows 7 can be perfect for some folks, that is until their computer falls prey to malware or a virus. The flexibility, configurability, and numerous distributions and desktop environments on Linux give you the greatest chance to find or create the perfect desktop for you. Some call it fragmentation, but I call it choice.  As a multi-community driven open-platform, Linux is a different beast than the closed platforms offered by Apple and Microsoft. Different in the best ways possible: user focused, community contributions encouraged and essential, and the only price of admission is a bit your time. So why all the whining about the state of the Linux desktop? I'm smitten with what our community has achieved, and I'm ecstatic about the future. 

Comments

Need Others View

Swadhin's picture

I think OSX is not a desktop OS :O, If OSX is then lets buy a System 76 laptop/desktop and use it for our day-to-day work.Hmmm suppose I have a system 76 laptop and using it for my office work by installing Netbeans,JDeveloper,Evolution and at home I am watching movies by installing VLC and all other stuff a normal guy do. Now Linux critics please tell me why Linux is not a desktop OS (like OSX)? I'm not a Linux guru but I am using it for last five years and I have done my college project, University project and now at work I'm using Linux too. And I don't understand WHY people say its not a desktop ready OS.

Thanks for quodlibet!

Nagisa's picture

I'm also using Arch linux and I were not happy with only one thing - Music player. Now that you dropped me hint of quodlibet at last I can delete all those Banshees and Rhythmboxes and enjoy my music with all functions I need. Thanks again!

What idiocy!

Anonymous's picture

I'm sorry but this article is just a piece of sh**! A lot of stupidities, false statements, etc.

By the way, I use exclusively Linux/BSD for many years now and yet I find the current state of the Linux Desktop quite poor. The Year of the Linux Desktop is quite far to be reaching, if ever there comes a day...

No need to apologize. Care

Kevin Bush's picture

No need to apologize. Care to elaborate a bit? What do you consider the "stupidities," and what do you find "quite poor" about your Linux desktop? Without actually making an argument, you are simply reinforcing my point about whining. ;-)

For the linux desktop to succeed

Pablokampiz's picture

The linux desktop has already been here for a long time. The problem is that it needs users willing to learn a new OS, but only a few want to do that. If you install Linux as your only OS (try a Live CD first to check if your hardware is compatible with that distro) and have the will to learn and use something new, in a couple of weeks you'll be enjoying your linux desktop.

Learning a new OS

barton's picture

I really don't think learning one of the major Linux distributions like Ubuntu or Mint is any harder than learning Windows 7 if you are coming from Windows XP. It seems that every version of Window$ is different enough to be very very aggravating. Windows XP at least had the "Classic" desktop still available even though many dialog boxes were completely different as were the control panel applets. It would seem to me the best time for someone to change from Window$ to Linux is when Microsoft comes out with a "new" version of Window$ with everything moved around but with all the old bugs.

The learning curve problem

Anonymous's picture

I think a good part of the whining problem has to do with the time and effort required to learn anything new. In the case of Linux the problem is compounded by the fact that most newly purchased computers come with Windows, unless you buy a Mac. The Windows OS is the most available and the one most people will try to learn or in most cases already know.

I am a Linux user and love Linux but the question my friends and relatives ask is "why should I learn Linux when I already know Windows?" That is a good question and even when I tell them about the security, openness and freedom that comes with Linux the stock response is that they don't want to have to learn another system. Learning a new system is a struggle and for most not worth the time unless there is something of compelling urgency that they need in the new system. But there is hope and I see it in mobile devices. There Linux did not have to fight the "pre-installed" Windows issue as Windows is almost absent in that space. Apple and Android are dominant. Because of the wide variety of apps that have been written for mobile devices people are more apt to try things out and more inclined to experiment and try something new. This breaks the Windows mind-set and opens new users to a new experience.

As Linux finds its way into schools and universities and as it becomes a major force in the mobile space it will find more users. I think your positive spin on the current state of desktop Linux is on the mark. It is every bit as good as Windows or Apple, it is also as easy to use and attractive. I am confident that it will continue to grow and find more users over time. Thanks for your hopeful look at Linux.

perfect!

Vikram's picture

perfect!

The Linux Desktop: We've Arrived

Anonymous coward's picture

Ok everybody, about this ease of setup and drivers argument. I know people in the tech support at a university. I have been told that the bench time required to set up a Windows computer is 9 - 12 hours.

I know this is must be true because I did work in tech support at the University back in the Windows 2000 days and it took at least 6 hours back then to setup a computer.

This is for things like:
Install AV software
security updates for all of the software installed
Custom files and scripts for services on campus,
etc. etc.

This is with the ability to clone drives with programs like Norton Ghost.

Now if every faculty member was required to buy the same computer, all at the same time, bench time would be reduced. But that will never happen.

So there.

Linux Desktop

David Schaffer's picture

I agree that Linux as a desktop operating system and the Linux apps I've seen are easy to use, solid, all the good things one might want.
But until there is a standard, simple software install mechanism -- as simple as running an exe file in Windows or a dmg file in OS X -- it's not going to break out of the niche market.

I found the equivalent of the

jaqian's picture

I found the equivalent of the *.exe is the *.deb and is used by most Debian based distro's Like Ubuntu & Mint. There is another type called *.rpm used by RedHat amongst others but I found it was always missing some dependency's unlike DEBS. I've given up trying to figure out how to create anything from source so if its not in DEB form I don't bother with it.

Rob
(Ubuntu 11.04)

Installers in Linux

K7HKL's picture

Linux does have standard install procedures, including using windows install procedures for wine supported windows applications. Today I downloaded a windows application (CAD Editor for CNC work) and when I clicked on the setup.exe it simply installed...just like it would on windows. Then I downloaded a G-Code editor to go along with the earlier CAD program but in a Linux version (a filename.deb file actually) and when I clicked on the downloaded filename.deb it just installed with no hassle and no problems. Both programs worked flawlessly and file compatibility was no problem between the windows and Linux tools.

:facepalm:

famicube64's picture

I see you've taken the liberty of keeping all of Linux's flaws in the shadows. There's no use even pointing them out, since anyone who complains about Linux is a troll in every regard.

This article is not

Jeshua's picture

This article is not discussing why Linux is perfect, but where it's good points are. The author us merely avoiding being schizophrenic by not saying "Linux is good because it has flaws here, here and here."
No one is saying Linux is flawless, and it is even stated in the introduction that this article just wants to offer an alternative, optimistic viewpoint since everyone else is saying that Linux is hopeless.
For that matter, at least these naysayers point out these flaws specifically. Developers and maintainers can end up being so caught up in work that they miss the point sometimes, and that's why open source is great. Someone out there will agree that someone needs to do something about it, and something will eventually be done. If all you can do is to come up with this revolutionary observation that Linux has flaws, well, I'm not sure if you are a big picture kind of person, trolling, or just very stupid.

Linux is DIY

Kevin Bush's picture

Folks who just complain about Linux in blog posts or comments, without making any effort to file bug reports or contribute to fixing problems are exactly that... trolls. Linux is created, maintained, and evolved by a community, or more precisely, mutlple communities. When folks start whinining about it as if it's a commercial product like Windows or Mac OSX, they are completely missing the point, and missing opportunities to be valuable contributors.

Oh, I thought it was commercial too...

Anonymous's picture

You mean like Red Hat Linux or SUSE Enterprise?

Not Exactly...

Kevin Bush's picture

Red Hat and Novell commercialize and provide services around what the community has created. That's far different than a commercial product like Windows.

There is a difference between

Anonymous's picture

There is a difference between whining and pointing out flaws on a fact basis.
The fact that commercial products benefit from huge amount of cash and resources (such as Windows) does not invalidate feature comparisons. What it would invalidate is value judgment on quality of progress for example. I think you invited somewhat the controversy a bit with the reference to "non techies". I don't think that anybody would argue that Linux has not made great progress in the last past year if looked in isolation of other factors. If one considers all the resources that go into all distributions as well as all the contributions made by commercial projects to Linux (they are very significant as well), it is also legitimate to ask if the progress made was efficient, or the right ones, etc, without being just whining...

To understand Linux relationship with non techie, it is useful to look at linux under the angle of a "product". It is very difficult for people in the IT industry to stay aware of where non techies come from, how they interact with product, what they want from them. The smartphone/OS battle, or new web products are clear illustration of challenges in understanding how difficult it can be to make a good product for the common person.
Newbies have been told for years by the Linux community things such as RTFM, "come on, it is not that hard, just drop to the command line and type these few cryptic command and all is well", etc. This is not realistic. Expecting a non techie to fill a bug report is not really realistic either, unless it is made very easy for them. Linux does not have to cater to newbies. But techies telling newbies they are "wrong" for not wanting to use Linux after trying and failing is not understanding what could be wrong in Linux as a "product for newbies".
I am sure it is frustrating for volunteers whom have generously shared so much of their time, creativity and work to improve Linux when they hear complaints, but the complaints have to be put into context.

Last, as a techie, if there is anything I find regrettable but that may be unavoidable with the speed of progress in Linux, is the fact that it feels the efforts are so scattered, and often duplicated, slowed with so much politics, ego fights that they are slowed down. The eternal issue of balancing freedom of trying and productivity.... If -and I know this is unrealistic- the work on Linux has been fully efficient, Linux would have been further it is today but 10 years ago, and Windows would not be here today. So I think there is some frustration even in the techie camp about seeing a lot of wasted resources and efforts which makes delivery promises slip time and time again. One can be frustrated but not have a solution in mind or not one that can be implemented considering the complexity of Linux development universe :-)
In other word, not all whiners are trolls, and the whining usually reveal some real issue underneath... often worth considering, if not addressing.

You may still be missing the important point here...

Kevin Bush's picture

What I'm trying to emphasize here is that Linux is a community driven tool. So whining about it as if it were a commercial product is a waste of your and my time. Some of this whining is inevitable, but that doesn't make it constructive. If you need a feature... contribute, contribute, contribute. Not a developer? Donate some cash, write documentation, or file bug reports.

I could care less whether Windows "is still here today" or not. The important thing is that we all now have a modern, community driven, free, open desktop alternative; and the price of admission to this community is zilch. Don't whine, contribute!

You missed the whole point,

Anonymous's picture

You missed the whole point, didn't you?

Linux desktops have made tremendous strides

Mike M's picture

I got my first computer around the time Internet access started to become widely available to the general public in the mid 1990s. It was a hand-me-down 386SX-16 with 4MB of RAM and came with Windows 3.1.

Having got a taste for the Internet at school, I wanted to be able to access the 'net at home during the summer too, but my computer didn't have enough memory to run Netscape 1.2. I had heard about a text-only web browser called 'Lynx'. I obtained a copy of the DOS version of Lynx, but was unsuccessful in configuring it for Internet access.

My room-mate at school, a computer science major, had shown me a Linux CD, so I decided to look into the possibility of installing Linux on my machine so that I could run Lynx.

After downloading several sets of Slackware 3.0 floppy disk images using a Windows 95 machine with a 28.8 modem that I had access to in the evening, I set about making the installation disks.

My computer had two floppy disk drives, a 5.25" drive (A:) and a 3.5" drive (B:). The 5.25" floppy drive was configured as the boot drive, and not knowing how to change that, I decided to use the only 5.25" floppy disks I had available that evening, which just happened to be the install disks for Microsoft Windows, to create the Slackware boot disks. Out came the scissors to cut a notch into the side of the MS floppies to make them writeable.

After lots of waiting and inserting floppy disks, I had my Linux machine up and running. Next, I configured my 14.4 modem and a script to make the SLIP connection to my Internet service provider with a little help from the 'minicom' program. I was on-line and delighted to be using Lynx to browse the web and Pine for email.

After discovering that my 386 did not meet the minimum system requirements to run a CD-ROM, I decided to save up for a new system. The new machine was a 486 DX2-66 with 16MB of RAM and was able to run X.

The only 'desktop' I can recall at the time was a commercial package called 'CDE'. I ordered, for a nominal fee, an academic version of SCO Unixware in order to try out this desktop. While it was pretty and had more features than FVWM, which was what I was using on Linux, I found Unixware wasn't as flexible and didn't have as good support for my hardware.

If my memory serves me correctly, changing the look of the window title bar buttons in FVWM involved editing the source code and recompiling. (I think. I compiled lots of source code back in those days. I hardly ever do now, as binaries for just about everything seem to be easily available.)

The next 'desktop' I recall was called 'Looking Glass' and it came with Caldera OpenLinux, which I had obtained a free copy of at a COMDEX show. Like CDE, it was proprietary and did not come with the 'Lite' version of OpenLinux.

I think the first Linux distribution I tried that had a graphical environment that I didn't spend much time fiddling with to make it look better was Red Hat 6. I also tried SuSE Linux 6.1 around the same time and it had a good desktop as well, but the book that came with it did not have the greatest translation from German to English.

I have read lots of articles about distributions and desktops, but one thing that I think that has improved the graphical experience greatly but doesn't necessarily get the spotlight are the various sets of widgets. When I started using Linux, most of the graphical programs used either the Athena widgets or the proprietary Motif widgets (e.g. Netscape and GIMP). Widget sets like Lesstif, GTK and Qt have made Linux graphical applications much more attractive and easy to use.

Today, I think we Linux users have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to our choice of Linux desktops. I think they're all quite excellent and I would be content using any of the ones I have tried.

Wow, what a wonderful look at

Kevin Bush's picture

Wow, what a wonderful look at where we have come from. Thanks for sharing this Mike.

"friendly" and "non techies" ??

Anonymous's picture

"There are user friendly distributions out there for non-techies " (highlight is mine)

To clarify something I was reacting to, I am quoting a sentence from the author. It all goes to define what "friendly" and "non techies" means, and to which tasks they apply.

Linux Mint which was listed as part of rebuttal arguments by people does not qualify as a friendly distribution to install and maintain by non techies user because one still need to dig down in configuration file and play around quite a bit to fix some issues that should be trivial things to fix for the user (such as setting a max resolution and frequency for a monitor). So what is significantly better than Linux Mint at dealing with configuration issues? I actually want to try a couple more distributions...

Linux mint once installed and configured properly with all the hardware it will be connected to may well be user friendly in everyday usage... :D

I think that Linux Mint

Daniel Jonsson's picture

I think that Linux Mint doesn't like your graphics card. I didn't need to mess with configurations files when I installed Ubuntu and Mint on my computer.
When I installed Gnome 3 on Arch it even set up graphics driver and my two monitors with the correct resolutions right out of the box, which even Windows doesn't do. So I didn't even had to open the window where I change screen resolution.

Better and better...

Bemis's picture

For those who use Linux it is getting better and better, and it is becoming somewhat more accessible to new and novice users... but prime time?

Ignoring obvious differences like cost, fuel usage, size, relative safety, etc, let's make an analogy...

Cars today are VASTLY more complex than cars from 100 years ago, they are easier to use and safer... 100 years ago you need to know spark advance, shifting gears, fuel ratios, etc... So let's imagine Windows is like a car. It's much easier to configure and use Windows today vs. 15 years ago. Windows (and the car) feels nicer, looks cooler, it's safer, etc... but the best part is that the basic principals of operating it--steering, gas, brake, start/stop engine, drive, reverse, etc, are all basically the same. People are comfortable with know how to drive a car, knowing how to operate said car on the roadways to get from point A to point B.

Ok, so if Windows is a car, then Linux is a helicopter... the helicopter is clearly more versatile then the car, but because of the perceived complexity toward operating a helicopter most people simply won't even consider buying one--even if there are new models of helicopter that are easy to fly as a car is to drive.

To carry it further... when you get into just about any car you know how to use it.. sure it might take a moment or two to figure things out, but basically it's easy to use and the features are similar. A helicopter is not quite the same, there might be bigger differences between the controls, etc...

So really the problem is how to get people to understand and want to use a helicopter for their daily transportation instead of a car...

I think a better analogy

Anonymous's picture

I think a better analogy would be a Mac being a Mercedes, luxurious, aesthetically appealing, more expensive.

Windows is the Volkswagen, not free but not expensive either, fairly versatile but the most popular for the general population.

Linux would be a Soviet era Lada car, people claim that it's 'faster' more 'agile' etc. but simply isn't. It is also prone to breakage, a bit like Linux.

A poor analogy. Unlike

Kevin Bush's picture

A poor analogy. Unlike Linux, flying a helicopter has a high cost of admission and a high risk. The cost of admission for a new Linux user is zilch, nada. And the risk involved is the same, nada, especially with live cd's. You can try before you have to not buy. :-)

Linux desktop still failing, here's why... rebuttal

Anonymous's picture

First of all, there's no perfect anything- OS, app, desktop, etc.- so that's out of the way.

I started computing in 1981 with MS-DOS and have done punch-card programming on an IBM System 370. Have worked extensively with every version Windows since 3.11 and Linux since 2000. Have taught on the community college level, have a couple of MS certs, can do db driven web stuff, have held a few IT jobs, blah, blah, blah, nothing a million others can't do. Point is, I've been around the block a few times.

As recently as 3 years ago you were right, at least to a degree, about Linux. In the last couple of years, though, everything has changed. You can install Linux Mint on most any machine- takes 20 minutes, tops- and it just works. No fuss, no muss. Are there distros that don't work as well? Sure, but I can say that the last 3 versions of Linux Mint have just been stellar.

Currently have a small IT business servicing individuals and SOHOs. Windows XP behaves decently well but Windows 7 has some issues, especially with printing over a network. The biggest thing will all versions of Windows is the malware issue, for which there is apparently no real cure. I've cleaned a number of machines in the last couple of months, most of them Vista and 7 machines, and it's getting harder every week. As IT pros have said for years, "I love Windows... it's job security."

Every customer I've migrated to Linux Mint has loved it and never looked back. The downside is that I lose a customer when I do so- they just never have any more trouble.

Linux desktop still failing, here's why... rebuttal's rebuttal

Anonymous's picture

You make my case actually with Mint, out the three debian distribution I installed and try to fix, I got to fix debian and ubuntu, thanks to some arcane config file editing, but Mint is the one that still won't boot and display properly.... :D
Better, sure, infinitely better than 5 years ago. Ready for non techie? good luck to them if anything goes wrong....

Install Windows on a computer from scratch.

barton's picture

I think you would find that installing Windows 7 on a "white box computer" would be every bit as hard or harder than installing Linux distributions like Ubuntu or Mint. When you buy a new system from Dell or HP or others the OEM has provided all the drivers for the box and installed Windows. Anyone who has tried to install Windows on a "white box computer" knows that it is often impossible. Your chance of being successful with Linux are much much better.

the year of the linux desktop

thewildpendulum's picture

the year of the linux desktop will arrive when i can watch netflix on my mint box

Or when Netflix becomes

Daniel Jonsson's picture

Or when Netflix becomes available outside US. :|

Linux Desktop still failing, here's why......

Anonymous's picture

Here's IMHO a single and sufficient issue that illustrates why Linux desktop is not ready:
drivers, drivers, drivers..... & configuration

I just took a couple of vanilla computers and installed a few of the most recent distributions (ubuntu, debian, mint, etc).
Only one of the distribution was somewhat able to configure my displays half correctly (debian) and only after I picked the expert install. I have not have any display problems with a window install in what, 10 years? Even running dual displays....
Ok so install does not work properly, but I can easily change the configuration, right?? Well, good luck on the "easy" part. Took me two days of trial and errors and saw on the way forums littered with the same issues as mine, unresolved, or resolved in ways that even sometimes startle would educated IT people.
While one can not expect linux to detect correctly all devices since nobody pays for the drivers to be written to start with, simpler tools to correct the configuration and a system of collection of device and settings that work does not exist, which means that the same problem has been lingering for years.
There are tons of "good excuses" that explains drivers issue, but at the end of it, until configuration detection/modification issues are resolved, linux desktop will only be reserved for IT techies, and even then, one has to be willing to still gets its hand really dirty on a regular basis...
Eye candies ....? Will be great when I can SEE them ;-)

How old are you?

JoeG's picture

OMG, Linux has the BEST driver support on the planet. You can't pick up a new Laptop or Desktop anywhere and expect to install a Windows OS on it without Googeling for drivers.

I just bought a new computer from Best-buy last week and blew away Windows and installed Linux Mint on it. EVERYTHING worked without issue - camera, check, network, check, wireless, check, HP printer (Networked), check, there wasn't a piece of hardware that was not detected and installed AUTOMATICALLY DURING INSTALL - try that with Windows 7 my friend.

Now, I had to click on the driver install icon to set up my nvidia card, but it was a click, download, reboot away.

Don't know what planet you are coming from, but Linux has had superb hardware recognition for at least 5 years now.

Go back to troll land where you belong...

You don't know what your talking about.

Anonymous's picture

Dude, your laughable. I've used Linux since 2003. The only reason I still have a windows machine around is because of it's driver support. How old are you? I built 40 windows 7 machines in the past year and every new component you buy for it basically only comes with windows drivers. What are you trying to do install some no-name $12 video card from 8 years ago?

I love Linux, but nothing has better driver support than windows. Christ all 3 of my network printers didn't need any special drivers installed. You just select your brand and it figures out for you!

Now Linux on the other hand has the worst driver support although it's much better. If I had a list for every scanner, webcam, and printer that Linux wouldn't support over the years I could fill a book.

Also regarding Best Buy Laptop genius, I just bought an HP-dm1-3025 2 weeks ago from Best Buy. Why don't you post instructions how I can even get something as simple as the track pad and wireless working in Fedora or Ubuntu. No, kernel 2.6.39 doesn't work either. BTW, I'm on 64 Bit so even manually trying to compile the horrible wireless driver doesn't work either. Guess what? It works amazing on Windows 7. Quit talking like you know what your talking about because I could school you all day with facts and examples.

You don't know what your talking about.

kylea's picture

Discussion of this type fascicle - Windows does come pre-installed with a heap of drivers - and Linux does support a lot too but not as many as Windows. So what? Buy hardware that suits the task. No one is forced to purchase any particular brand of PC/Laptop/ Smart Mobile Device (BTW these are mostly Unix or Linux, funny that).

If you want access to a huge array of free software and generally excellent support with a seemingly never end array of new ideas then Linux is the place to be. If you want to be 'protected and controlled' or you have special editing needs - MACOSx is the way to go. If you want what ever Windows offers (what is that again?) or the program you use only has drivers written buy (sic) the vendor for Windows - then buy a Windows device.

The issue is not "Linux", in most cases it is the hardware vendors not making code available to incorporate into the kernel.

I am glad it worked for your

Anonymous's picture

I am glad it worked for your laptop, and i may be that linux has the best variety/collection of generic drivers loaded on the disk - when they work. But it obviously did not on my two vanilla computers TODAY, with the latest debian based distrib, including Mint (computers about 2 years old, home made, nothing special to them). You can google xorg.conf/grub2 display issue to see how many people are in the same boat as I have been. And you are missing the point as far as my reference to display/install on windows -not comparison, even though on these two computers, it happens that windows 7 and 2008 loaded with no issue at all, display drivers being only the tip of the iceberg as far as drivers are concerned. I will find you cases on both side that will crash your install, windows and linux. But... fixing the windows display install for example is quite easy compare to the linux one. I can remote guide a IT dumb friend fixing most display issue on windows. On linux, good luck...... the advantage is with Linux, you can dig down and see what's wrong when thing are really screwed up but you have to be a techie for that. Sure you have to download drivers from manufacturers for windows, but even my one finger typing father can do this and fix his display.
The point is that Linux desktop issues (mainly driver related) still require to be a techie, and resolving issues on Linux, even what should be relatively simple one also require to be a techie.
So no need to call people names, reading carefully first may help, unless you really want to prove you are a linux fanboy, are you??

You got to be kidding me!

Kevin Power's picture

Try installing windows 7 or any other variety of Microsoft operating system ( Win 1.0 to win 3.3, win95, winme, win98, win 2000, win NT,win XP, win Vista, and the variety of win 7) and you will be looking for drivers, dll, and what ever other piece of config file needed to get it to maybe be useful. Not to mention, you have to have some type of anti-virus package to prevent it from being manipulated and grind-ed to a halt after a mere 3 months to 6 months.
As for Mac, that is another mystery that has to be handed over to the oracle to get it to work.

I have and when drivers are

Anonymous's picture

I have and when drivers are still available, it is a very easy fix.
Again, linux is a gem for so many things, but it is not overall for non techie people, or at least for people not supported by techies - and good one at that.

Try this then.

Kevin Power's picture

Then why does microsoft have such a big tech support system for their already installed systems. Asus has express-gate for people who can not wait for windows to boot, and it is linux based and you be amazed at how self initiative it is.
I believe if you took someone, who has not tech ability, and gave them the opportunity to install a linux distro like ubuntu or pclinuxos on to a current technology system that they would have no problem doing it. Then try to install win 7 on the same thing for the same system that has no prior microsoft installed on it, and just see if it is as easy to get up and running. I mean hooked up to the internet prior to install to check on how everything is working.Then after install to reboot and log in and get on the net and watch videos, do word processing, edit video, play music/edit music and yes play games too.

>Then why does microsoft have

Anonymous's picture

>Then why does microsoft have such a big tech support system for their already installed systems

They represent 90% of the desktop market, any problem, whether hardware or 3rd party software goes to them. Their size is not really relevant in this argument. Most of the problems with windows happen after the machine is booted and functional! That being said, I am not arguing that MS is nice OS (I don't care really), but they did some homework when it comes to running with decent default and allowing easy fixing of elementary issues such as display (and many OEMs work a lot as well). I have yet to have that experience with Linux... when it fails, the experience to fix it is still often a major headache.
As far as the experience you mentioned, the two computers I was mentioning are home built and have not been designed for windows. So in this particular case, your point is moot.
Again, my point is not to say Linux is bad, or comparing the OS, but I have been hearing every two years or so, linux is ready for desktop and non techie... well, sorry, it has improved a lot, but it is still not ready. this goes straight to the author point about non techie friendly distribution, and I believe mint is considered one of them, well, it is still not there yet, really wish it were....

Linux for non-techies

Utah's picture

I have to disagree with your post. I have worked with Linux of and on for the past 15 yrs. When I first started using Linux I was using an old 33 megahertz processor and 8 meg of ram. I knew nothing about computers. My children who where young showed me how to turn it on. It was running windows 3.1 and froze up the first night I used it. It took me 2 days to get it back working. Later on bought gateway 200 megahertz and had win95. Always rebooting,driver problems editing reg. and on and on. I was even using dual monitors and the system suddenly crashed for no reason. I never figured out why. That is when I switched to Linux and started using it. Yes my first version was RedHat 2.0 I think. Yes back then it was hard and you did have to learn how to edit a config file and driver support was terrible, but I did not give up. When I wasn't crashing the system because of trying something on my on, it ran with no problems.
As for the distros that are out today, My hat is off to the community and the hard work that they have done. I have LinuxMint, Ubuntu, and Debain on my computer and they all run flawlessly and on no name system built out of parts from China. I leave it up and running and seldom reboot, usually due to power failure. I quit using windows in 2004 I think and never looked back. Yes it has flaws like all OS's so what. I'll take Linux any day and am happy to have a system that I can use as I want.
Oh! By the way I'm just a dumb old bricklayer and construction hand who is not IT wizard or guru. Yet I have to be IT for my wife's windows laptop when it goes down.
I hope that one day you will be smart enough to put Linux on your vanilla computers and have a nice experience.

The argument was that Linux

Kevin Power's picture

The argument was that Linux was not ready for the usual masses, funny how android is taking the world by storm. Microsoft has their OS installed by the manufacture under agreements that do not allow competition. Yes Mac has their system too, and they are even more anal. Both systems have been around longer getting a good foot hold, but now that Linux has arrived(20 years plus) it has evolved to be able to adapt to any format or configuration thrown at it. So to say it is not ready for the masses, really means that the masses need to open their eyes and realize the opportunity to get out from virus problems and restrictions.

Linux certainly has the

Anonymous's picture

Linux certainly has the potential to be ready for the masses. Google and OEM are building an environment around a small linux core and it is the environment that makes it successful or not.

It is not to the Mass as you say to wake up to Linux, it is to the development community to realize what are really the barriers that prevent the "Mass" from using it, if they wish it for the "Mass" to use it. Most people do not care what is running underneath a gadget or computer. Does it work or not for what people want to do with it? If if does not, can it be fixed easily without spending 2 days googling for answers, because most people won't spend or don't have the time to spend for this. iOS and OSX make a lot of thing easy for regular people, that's why it is popular.
I have been using Unix/Linux for ages and I can see the tremendous effort that went from so many volunteers and developers to improve distributions. And they did improve it, I'll make up number, but if 10 years ago 20% of distrib would install right of the bat, may be 85% install now, which is great. The issue, like for speech and face recognition is that the percentage that does not work is the issue, especially when no easy fix is provided. It turn regular people off, they do not have the knowledge or time to deal with it. Tell me an easy way to fix drivers and configuration issues in Linux in these 15% cases (or whatever the % may be) and I'll eat my words. The silly thing is that it really does seem that providing an easier configuration "fixer" per say should not have been so difficult if all linux distrib had worked together on it and did a bit of crowd sourcing collecting result automatically from all installs. I am sure 100x more work went into making fancy graphic interfaces and all, which are nice to have, sure, when the rest works....

% what?

Kevin Power's picture

As you quoted "Tell me an easy way to fix drivers and configuration issues in Linux in these 15% cases (or whatever the % may be) and I'll eat my words." Ditto for windows too.You can not tell me that windows is easy to maintain and install, especially for the regular Joe and Doe out there.

Windows is a mess/nightmare

Anonymous's picture

Windows is a mess/nightmare to maintain when not locked down, I'll agree with this 100%. But as far as installing, I'll disagree with you from experience, especially when it comes to Windows 7, Microsoft IMHO did its home work in order to let non techie be able to handle most basic issues, which for installs are drivers. Just compare the steps involved in troubleshooting and fixing a display driver issue with Linux vs windows and the case is made.

I'll say the following and may be you'll see where I am coming from, as far as IT techies are concerned, Linux desktop has been usable for quite a while, a few years actually... it all comes to whom is your target audience...

I am beginning to think you

Kevin Power's picture

I am beginning to think you are arguing just for the sake of arguing. I would have to say that I am done as you seem not to understand my argument.

KDE Highly Configurable?

Shane's picture

How on earth is KDE 4.x highly configurable? How can I get Konsole to show up on the right click menu?

A desktop for everyone

humberto's picture

Users should RTFM! and choose their desktop and customizing it in the way they want.

If you are a mainstream user you can use any distro that fits it's desktop for your needs.

I'm very confortable with my e16/Debian/Ubuntu box so you must search the right for you instead of imposing any other option.

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omissions

Anonymous's picture

I would have been worth to mention the Enlightenment desktop manager, as well as its reference distro, the Bodhi Linux.

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