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Arbitration enforcement archives:

A Quest For Knowledge

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Eric Corbett

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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Jaqeli

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Bus stop

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MarkBernstein

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DHeyward

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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning DHeyward

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User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Woodroar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:33, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
User against whom enforcement is requested
DHeyward (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamergate#Principles :
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. 05:13, 9 June 2015, User:Zad68 warned DHeyward about original research and commentary for this edit.
  2. 14:10, 19 June 2015, User:Tony Sidaway warned DHeyward about FORUM regarding this edit.
  3. 02:25, 20 June 2015, DHeyward made comments about "Indie/SJ game developers" being irrelevant, was not warned.
  4. 00:42, 21 June 2015, DHeyward made this rev-deleted comment that he claims was about the "5 horseman" but conveniently used an entirely different word that just happens to reference the gossiping-about-living-persons that started GamerGate in the first place.
  5. 01:58, 21 June 2015, User:Zad68 warned him again about FORUM for this edit and also reminded him of that previous warning from 05:13, 9 June 2015.
  6. 04:15, 28 June 2015, DHeyward made comments about political correctness and compared current events to censorship by Tipper Gore.
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
  1. Earlier ANI, DHeyward was admonished but not blocked due to self-revert
  2. Earlier sanctions request, DHeyward was blocked for 48 hours
  3. AE request for battleground behaviour, closed with IBAN
  4. AE request for 1RR and soapboxing, closed with advice not to engage in "uncollaborative or disruptive editing"
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
  • DHeyward is aware of sanctions per multiple requests for enforcement above.
Additional comments by editor filing complaint

DHeyward is certainly capable of civilly discussing sources. But he often goes off into FORUM territory, discussing subjects with no reference to sources, often with POV/RIGHTGREATWRONGS rants and BATTLEGROUND approach. He does not appear to be swayed by warnings—3 for FORUM just this month—and the careless asides that could be complaints about other editors or could be BLP violations don't help. Woodroar (talk) 06:33, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning DHeyward

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Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by DHeyward

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Frivolous. The discussion was speculation of interpreting sources. I disagreed with the speculation that was already ongoing. That's all folks. By the way, here is one of the sources [115] and a direct quote Apple’s decision to remove games featuring the Confederate flag from the App Store is drawing the ire of GamerGaters, who see this as yet another attempt by those on the left to muzzle expression they don’t approve of.(sic).. I expressed that sourced view in the next section that was trying to attribute racism to GamerGate. That is not WP:FORUM, its a valid interpretation offered by a reliable source stated above. --DHeyward (talk) 07:21, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've never alleged PtF is a sock. Just a SPA that began their editing career at GamerGate ArbCom. That's WP:DUCK evidence that no one has disputed, including PtF that uses it as his signature. I disagree about a 1RR violation at any time and scrupulously use the talk page with less than 30 edits to the main article. PtF also fails to mention his multiple BLP violations that I brought to ANI as well as harassing me on my talk page after being asked to stop. His speculation that GamerGater is now "racist" with no sources is what I disagreed with on the talk page and what Woodroar has brought here. --DHeyward (talk) 07:38, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

PtF, you put quotes around 'there is no doubt' pertaining to other editor accusation I am a sockuppet' as if I said that. One only has to follow the link to see you are not telling the truth or quoting accurately. You are a SPA and anyone that begins their WP career at ArbCom and Noticeboards and GamerGate is a WP:DUCK SPA. You highlight my query to Bishonen as accusatory yet you failed to point out that she agreed with me[116] as did Ryulong. Please drop the charade that you are not a SPA with previous WP experience. --DHeyward (talk) 07:51, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

PtF, you don't appear to understand policy or the difference between a SPA, sock, or alternate account. You can have multiple accounts. You can have it just to edit gamergate. I believe policy forbids using it at noticeboards, whence my query to Bishonen. Socking is simultaneously using multiple accounts. I have no evidence of you using multiple accounts at the same time or in the same area. That would be the only reason to start a SPI and I have not accused you of that nor have I started a SPI request. It is a legitimate request that only primary accounts (even dormant, abandoned, old ones) be used in these WP spaces outside articles. I don't think any reasonable person would conclude you learned about WP policy, editing and process by starting off at arbcom 7 months ago in a SPA area. In fact, multiple people have commented on it. See WP:SPA. It is quite different than WP:SOCK. Your edit history and POV are pretty clear per WP:SPA. --DHeyward (talk) 08:36, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also, PtF, the 1RR violation you filed were frivolous and it was noted in the closing of AE with no action. Please stop. Even Zad68's warning wasn't two reverts but I didn't bother correcting him since there was nothing to be gained. I know it wasn't 1RR and it's why you didn't bring it here since you actually made the final revert as you always seem to do. --DHeyward (talk) 08:52, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Tony Sidaway in this particular complaint, I am opposing an unsourced change in the narrative as other editors contemplate its turn to a "racist campaign" and I quoted from a reliable source (above) "GamerGaters, who see this as yet another attempt by those on the left to muzzle expression they don’t approve of" I'm not even proposing an addition, rather it's a source directly opposed to the course change describing "GamerGate" as a racist campaign. That's hardly arguing for anything you described. --DHeyward (talk) 17:49, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Tony Sidaway I am disappointed that you take talk page discussion as OR or Synth. Particularly out of context diffs that fail to show the context of the comment, E3 in particular and the article by Auerbach. I've made 29 edits total to the article in 9 months so there are no diffs of me pushing POV into anything. The comments you highlighted are shared by others in those discussions, just not you. --DHeyward (talk) 19:46, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I didn't respond on my talk page about 1RR or FORUM as they didn't need any. However, now that they have been brought up here, I have responded as they are mistaken. See here. Per Gamaliel's suggestions I will voluntarily take a week off gamergate topic just to stop the bickering. --DHeyward (talk) 22:52, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Zad68 your diffs don't show the addition of "mass shooting." I find it troubling that you have let it go a week and said the 1RR is not sanctionable. I didn't challenge it then because of what you said. Now that it's been used as some sort of evidence prior to even the 1RR rule and Arbitration I am troubled that this now is the basis for even more of a sanction after I provided support. Using your definition of a "revert" would mean a 0RR restriction stops all editing on any page because it undoes the action of other editors in some form. Really? I offered to voluntarily and in good faith to accept Gamaliel's offer, not out of indifference or defiance but to stop this. I find it troubling that you think removal of an unsourced statement made in January with an edit that matches the article account is somehow twisted into the belief that it's more likely to happen in the future. Considering I've only made 29 edits on the entire article, I don't see the reasoning and it would be pretty impossible to find diffs to support that my original edit was a revert as the entire lead has evolved. --DHeyward (talk) 04:21, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Clarification Requested
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Please outline from Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate#Sanctions available which of the items I am violating for AE request? --DHeyward (talk) 23:07, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by PeterTheFourth

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I have similarly had issues with editor DHeyward. My issues with this editor are primarily his incivility, but also his flirtation with violating 1RR restrictions on the Gamergate controversy page.

  • Incivility:
Deletes and/or derides attempts to engage with him about editing issues on his talk page- [121], [122], [123], [124], [125], [126], [127]
  • 1RR:
  • This arbitration enforcement request by me concerns a 1RR violation by him. (Note: self-reverted after extensive discussion as the request was filed, no sanctions resulted. A great deal of effort was required in engaging him before DHeyward self-reverted, and displays an unwillingness by DHeyward to examine his own conduct or accept fault.)
  • Edit here reverts Bilby's edit. Edit here reverts Forbidden Rocky's edit- both of these reverts were within 24 hours. A self-revert was requested here and ignored.
  • Zad68 notes another violation of 1RR by him here.

The 1RR violations I bring to attention are mostly quite minor, but I believe are concerning combined with his occasional unwillingness to engage with other editors on issues. PeterTheFourth has made few or no other edits outside this topic. 07:26, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@DHeyward: You state "I've never alleged PtF is a sock." Yet in this diff, which I believe I had conveniently included in my initial statement, you say that I should use my primary account if I intend to wikihound you. All of these diffs which I have used to support the statement contain you either accusing me of being a sock, or allude to me being a "WP:DUCK" alternate account of another editor. PeterTheFourth has made few or no other edits outside this topic. 07:42, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And now you abandon that position and continue alleging that I am the alternate account of another WP editor. Alright. PeterTheFourth has made few or no other edits outside this topic. 07:52, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Gamaliel: Fair call with American Sniper. I'd just like to note that I had been editing the Anthony Watts article before DHeyward started editing it- any accusations of wikihounding there are a bit misplaced. PeterTheFourth has made few or no other edits outside this topic. 00:32, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind- was thinking of something else he'd accused me of stalking him to (mattress performance article), checked to be sure and it seems he had edited Anthony Watts before I had. PeterTheFourth has made few or no other edits outside this topic. 00:59, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tony Sidaway

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The repeated and rather tedious personalised comments about Peter the Fourth are worrying. I hope an interaction ban may cure that.

My main other problem here is that DHeyward does spend an awful lot of time trying to push original research into the article. While reliable sources are near universal in characterising Gamergate as a harassment campaign, DHeyward will often leap at any outlier that may be used to bend the article topic into a narrative about intrusive "social justice warriors" (a term DHeyward appears to use without irony) provoking hostile reactions in a cohesive, often progressive gaming community. The latter is certainly an opinion that should be included, but it surely should not be our main narrative. While good faith editors may be mistaken, and it's healthy to air alternative views about correct weighting, having people hammering for months on end on quite hopeless cases with scant evidence is not good for the cooperative editing environment. At some point it would be as well for an editor to be warned to drop the stick.

DHeyward is not the only editor I think needs a warning about the limits of the good faith assumption. He's the one whose conduct we're discussing now, though. --TS 13:26, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In response to Gamaliel's request for evidence:

  • 04:37, 17 June 2015. In particular: 'Only the warped logic of wikipedia echoes "journos" views. It's clearly not what others think and their silence speaks more loudly than the "weight of reliable sources." Failing to differentiate Wikipedia from reality is why the article sucks.'
  • 05:01, 17 June 2015. In particular: 'Wikipedia rules don't change reality. [Auerbach is] spot on about the failed expectations of those that "won" in October and are ignored with silence now.'
  • 01:03, 20 June 2015 A rather lengthy piece of synthesis.
  • 02:25, 20 June 2015. Pushing the synthesis again. Particularly "The harassment campaign is notable but the least compelling," quite extraordinary in the light of the thousands of words of international coverage the harassment campaign has received.

Please do request more diffs if the pattern does not become clear. I only stopped because I'm using a mobile telephone and it's rather slow work on a 10cm touch screen. --TS 18:41, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Masem

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On the issue of WP:FORUM, this can be borderline. There are many other editors that discuss non-article-improvement matters that are tangentially related to GG as part of the talk page discussion, and arguably in a manner to push their point, so DHeyward is not alone here. In discussion of a situation like GG it is sometimes helpful to compare to other situations, or to step back momentarily to consider big picture aspects that lead back towards gaining consensus on potential article improvements, so exactly defining a line where a violation can occur is going to be hard. I do think some of DHeyward's are questioning things that we probably are not in a place to question (like the June 21 diff regarding the security at the USU event) without going onto SOAPBOXing within the context of the article (as it is not about gun laws, but the fact there was a threat to start with).

However, I do agree that continual attempts to call out Peter as a sock in article talk page is unwarranted. If one has such evidence, it should be presented at the appropriate forum, but otherwise, one should not be making such personal accusations. --MASEM (t) 13:58, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My apologizes to DHeyward, I misread where the apparent sock accusation was made (at an AN board which arguably it is okay). However, I still express concern when an editor tries to call out another as a sock without having strong evidence ready, or trying to call out an editor as an SPA without similar evidence. It is one thing when there's a range of diffs that could be used for this, and just speculation, and DHeyward does appear to engage in this. But to note, there are other editors that also do this on the GG talk page and other related pages too, and the same warning/aspects should apply to equivalent violations. --MASEM (t) 02:10, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Woodroar The point of noting "other editors do it too" is that in light of no explicit sanction with DHeyward named on it, that putting down sanctions specifically for only those actions on DHeyward without similarly putting similar things in place for others is inappropriate. (If DHeyward had been previously sanctions to not going into OR, for example, that would be different). Now, if we're talking in the context of larger behavior problems, sure, pointing out where DHeyward may be doing actions that others do too but which has been discouraged but not disallowed (eg like edging into soapbox-y OR) on the talk page as part of a larger behavior problem with DHeyward is fine to address. Just that as individual actionable items, some of these things that are done equally DHeyward and other editors on the page should not be treated as standalone offenses against just DHeyward. --MASEM (t) 14:44, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To add, yes, there are some things that DHeyward has been specifically warned about as documented, but again, I think we're talking big picture, which the actions that others do too aren't individually something to worry about but the overall behavior they contribute to is fair game for investigation. --MASEM (t) 14:51, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Aquillion

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DHeyward has repeatedly used the talk page as a forum to discuss his own opinions on the controversy. I mean, almost everyone editing there has opinions, of course, and they're going to come up sometimes (especially when they relate to interpreting or weighing sources); but a significant portion of his posts to the talk page seem more about asserting his views than anything else. For examples of what I mean, see here, here, here, here, here, and here, in addition to several of the diffs other people mentioned above. All of these grew out of discussions about one source or another, but I feel that in each case, he was focused on expressing his overarching opinions on the controversy or its underlying politics rather than anything that would help make a better article; and he's done this repeatedly despite being warned not to use the article talk page as a forum for his views. --Aquillion (talk) 14:44, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by MONGO

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It has not gone unnoticed my myself that PeterTheFourth has followed DHeyward to at east three articles, two of which are related to each other but neither has anything to do with GamerGate. The first two were American Sniper (film) and the related Chris Kyle and the second was Anthony Watts (blogger). Whether this constitutes wikistalking is unclear, but considering Peter admits in his username signature that they are in essence a single purpose account, these incidents trouble me. While a particular stance on contentious areas may make it easier to work in those areas and avoid harm to main accounts by creating a sock account, I have no proof that Peter is a sock, but more often than not, a SPA usually ends up promoting only one side of the storyline and in my experience, most SPAs have an agenda that is not a benefit to the pedia. With that said, this subject material is highly contested so I encourage all parties to follow policy regarding referencing, undue weight and related issues. An examination of the diffs provided in this matter against DHeyward do not rise to the level of needing a sanction. I do not see DHeyward as being on the wrong side, only that he is very detailed oriented towards following policies and guidelines.--MONGO 16:28, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Gamaliel:...I respect almost all your administrative efforts and admire that you would involve yourself at AE, but there has been some bad disagreements between yourself and DHeyward so I hope you refrain from action in this matter.--MONGO 18:49, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Gamaliel:...I suppose I was considering interaction ban between DHeyward and another editor which he has asked you to either enforce or remove. I believe that the other party may have made comments regarding DHeyward and due to the I-ban DHeyward has been unable to respond. I may have my facts twisted a bit on this and if so I request I be slapped with a Pallid sturgeon.--MONGO 21:52, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Gamaliel:...DHeyward offered to abide by your original suggestion which was at least a week self imposed ban. Why not do this and if we're back here again in two weeks or a month then a long topic ban may be in order. Lets assume good faith here...and give the benefit of the doubt.--MONGO 22:51, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by 108.52.24.214

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Although, to be fair, even Jimbo Wales acknowledges that PeterTheFourth looks like an SPA, simply being an SPA does not violate the rules in any fashion. If DHeyward genuinely feels that the creation of this SPA around the time of an ArbCom case in the chosen topic and his familiarity with Wikipedia is potential indication of WP:DUCK, he should have taken formal action by with all the accusations he has levied, otherwise he really needs to lay off.

Also, if DHeyward is sanctioned for his degree of violating WP:FAITH assumptions, the borderline WP:FORUM concerns, and previous 1RR issues that were already resolved, I hope other editors in this topic area are held to the same standards. 108.52.24.214 (talk) 17:12, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by ForbiddenRocky

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DHeyward, as pointed out above, has several times made contentious claims WRT what GG or GGC is about. He's generally circumspect when it comes to this, but the overall pattern looks very soapboxish to me. Also, in the process of making a contentious claim, he gets challenged, and then he often crosses into talking about the editor (i.e. the stuff about PtF) or into outright incivility.

  • He's called me a SPA with the implication I'm a sock by referencing DUCK.
  • This series of (archived) edits demonstrates DHeyward's proximity to soapboxing and incivility at the same time:
    • He makes his claim which to me looks soapboxish.
    • I read the article and ask him if this is related to the GGC entry, because I just don't see it.
    • And he responds with RTFA. Which in the most charitable form reads as Read The Friendly Article, and in less charitable forms reads with a different word for F. In any case he also fails at AGF here by assuming I didn't read the article.
    • The rest of the talk goes on to confirm that his claim is not relevant.

- ForbiddenRocky (talk) 18:15, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Vordrak

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No Action - I am relatively new, but DHeyward has always seemed a diligent editor to me. He occasionally has a slightly uncivil manner but nothing rising to the level of requiring AE action. Like MONGO I agree that Gamaliel may wish to consider recusal to avoid any appearance of being WP:INVOLVED. Vordrak (talk) 22:47, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Gamaliel has asked me to explain my statement. I have sent him an off-wiki explanation. Vordrak (talk) 01:02, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Zad68: in fact I would suggest you do nothing Zad, because a count of the votes in this request shows there is no consensus for action - the community is split at a dead heat. A topic ban for DHeyward would therefore be out of process. The same goes for Gamaliel. Vordrak (talk) 09:20, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Zad68: @Gamaliel: in fact with the statement just made by (administrator) Tom Harrison it now seems more than 50% of the community here is against sanctions. Please correct me if I am wrong, as I am new, but as AE is also the appellate venue for discretionary sanctions that means you cannot DS him for the alleged wrong either. Vordrak (talk) 12:33, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks to Ryk72, Strongjam and Zad68 for correcting me on WP:CONSENSUS. Looks like I was plain wrong. However it also looks like the WP:CONSENSUS as well as the numerical vote is against action with many objections founded on rules and considerations of proportionality. I commend Ryk's post for its clarity. Vordrak (talk) 13:38, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by ColorOfSuffering

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I'm honestly not seeing the problem here. Original research is not forbidden on talk pages. From WP:OR: "This policy of no original research does not apply to talk pages." I do not understand why Zad68 issued those warnings. As for accusations of violating WP:FORUM, well, a few of those edits look to be borderline (particularly the edit about Indie/SJ game developers). However, the current talk page is chock full of commentary about Gamergate that has little to do with improving the article. For example: "So we can only look at the actions of the group, which are foul." "Hm. Sounds like those fake reports they got later musta been third party trolls." We can only know their actions -- chiefly harassing women in computing, true, but here (apparently) taking some time from that great work to support the flag of the purported Confederate States of America." "The article would have been so much more easy to put together if they had agreed on a spokesperson(s). Coulda, woulda, shoulda though." Violations of WP:FORUM are an epidemic, and if we are going to take action against DHeyward then we should immediately look at the behavior of our fellow editors under the same microscope. ColorOfSuffering (talk) 03:56, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Zad68 yes, nuance and I are old friends (while it appears brevity and I are mortal enemies). Fortunately, interpreting that aspect of WP:OR does not require nuance -- the sentence I quoted is blindingly unambiguous. Yes, there was a discussion between several editors in May 2015 about the policy applying to talk pages. So what? Am I missing something? Was the policy changed? Was that sentence removed from the policy page? You're an administrator so I would expect you to be more familiar with these pages, especially if you're issuing warnings as an uninvolved administrator. WP:OR is a Core Content Policy. WP:NOT is a Content Policy, which in my mind gives actually WP:OR precedence (key word: core) without need for "loopholes." And both policies are part of the Five Pillars. WP:NOT is WP:5P1, and WP:OR is WP:5P2. I've now read the WP:OR talk page, and I thank you for the reading suggestion. In turn, I would suggest you re-familiarize yourself with the Administrators' reading list, which (surprisingly) does not include WP:NOT. And if you made a mistake in asking DHeyward to adhere to the no original research policy on an article talk page, I would hope you'd hold yourself accountable and own up to that fact in this enforcement request, as it is being used as evidence. I still fail to see how the behavior of DHeyward is any more egregious than previous AE requests that received no action against the subject of the filing: [128][129][130][131][132]. I agree with Tom Harrison. "The objections to DHeyward seem to be based more on his views than on his behavior." ColorOfSuffering (talk) 19:34, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Gamaliel I'm sorry, but "snark?" My response is anything but snarky or uncivil. It was a factual response, and reading any negative inflection into that response is failing to take WP:AGF into account. My comments addressed the evidence in the case, specifically the first diff. My interpretation of WP:NOR was challenged, so I responded with further explanation. Zad68 asked me to read a talk page, so I responded with my own recommendation, which I thought was pertinent to the case. As for WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, which I'm sure you know is a valuable essay for discussions about deleting articles, I would say that precedents and previous actions are a very important factor in an AE decision. For example, Zad68 choosing to give the Gamergate talk page 500/30 protection was due to precedent, and WP:OSE did not apply. The point I am making is that previous AE requests with patently obvious personal attacks and soapboxing received no administrative action. Are DHeyward's actions any more egregious than those prior requests? ColorOfSuffering (talk) 01:56, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Woodroar

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(Putting my further statements here to avoid mucking up the form.)

I'm surprised by some of the comments here. Saying that "other editors do it, too" is no defense, and is akin to WP:OSE arguments in deletion discussions. The Talk page exists so that we can discuss how to improve the article; FORUM and SOAPBOX comments are rightly discouraged because they inhibit that process. If other editors are ranting about their own opinions and demanding we include them in the article, then by all means attempt to steer them back towards productive discussion, with warnings if necessary. DHeyward was been warned three times this month and continues to treat the Talk page as a forum to express his views and, apparently, RIGHTGREATWRONGS. Additionally, his BATTLEGROUND complaints about a pejoratively-named group of editors that doesn't even exist anymore (and hasn't existed for months) using a term referring to a specific BLP violation are the type of comments that DHeyward has been warned about in the past. Woodroar (talk) 13:23, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Rhoark

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There seems to be some misunderstanding about the scope and meaning of WP:FORUM. Behaviors that are not FORUMing include:

Some things that would be FORUMing include:

  • Sharing opinions apropos of nothing
  • Reiterating the same opinion in response to any and every edit or source
  • Emphasizing that the topic is a WP:OUTRAGE

Rhoark (talk) 17:02, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Zad68: Except inasmuch as every edit is undoing something about what somebody wrote before, I don't think touching months-old language should be considered a revert. Age could be an indicator of a venerable consensus, or of a corner full of cobwebs. DHeyward's edit was not even a direct inversion of the January edit. Rhoark (talk) 04:17, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Zad68: @PeterTheFourth: This[133] is also not a reversion. It incorporates feedback and does not return the page to a prior state. Rhoark (talk) 04:31, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I note that Bishonen (talk · contribs) has closed the below complaint against MarkBernstein (talk · contribs) on the procedural ground that it requested action on a principle rather than a remedy. If that's the correct procedure, then surely this filing that doesn't even go so far as to single out any particular principle but just links the principles section should also be closed with no action? (I think, rather, it would be common sense to allow both complaints to proceed naturally and respond to them as what they are - requests for new sanctions rather than for enforcement of existing sanctions.) (Also looks like there's an IP edit warring the closure.) Rhoark (talk) 22:58, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tom Harrison

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The objections to DHeyward seem to be based more on his views than on his behavior. If the editing and talk page discussion shown in this complaint are so far over the line as to require a topic ban, then I don't see how anyone will be able to edit the article. Tom Harrison Talk 11:01, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Dumuzid

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I wasn't going to comment on this, given that I am not terribly experienced in such things, but as vote counting has become an issue, I thought I should speak up. I am, to be frank, torn. DHeyward's behavior is not what I would call ideal, but neither is it terrible. Were this not such a contentious area, I would advocate that no penalty or censure is necessary. But this IS a contentious area, and in light of TRPoD's recent indefinite ban, I don't see how this can be simply hand-waved away. DHeyward's Wikipedia sins strike me as similar in kind, if not quantity, to those of TRPoD. As such, I think some action is required, and though not up to me, I would certainly urge a ban of one week (or shorter) rather than something longer. There you have my 2¢. Dumuzid (talk) 13:13, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by JzG

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I think the time has come to separate DHeyward from both PeterTheFourth and Gamergate. Three months seems conservative to me. Guy (Help!) 13:25, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Jorm

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I wasn't going to comment on this but I guess some people think we're "voting" now.

I pretty much agree with Guy. DHeyward doesn't seem capable of keeping his shit together when it comes to PeterTheFourth. I also agree with Zad in that his acceptance of a week-long topic ban just to stop the bickering seems to be missing the point, which then brings us back to the point, as it were.

Also: bad behavior is not excused because other people behave badly. It always blows my mind that people use that as a defense for anything. It's like we're in fourth grade or something.--Jorm (talk) 13:50, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Starke Hathaway: is that a threat? That reads like a threat and intimidation tactic: "You better not sanction DHeyward or you're going to be very busy." Are you sure that's what you want to convey?--Jorm (talk) 14:22, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Starke Hathaway

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If DHeyward is to be sanctioned for this very mild misconduct, the admins here should expect to very shortly see a raft of complaints against nearly every editor active in the topic area. Maybe the plan is to, as some have suggested, topic ban every active Gamergate editor (and to be honest I see the appeal of that approach), but if not I think the admins should think carefully before pulling the trigger on such a borderline case. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 14:19, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Jorm: Of course it's not a threat to say that opening the door to serious sanctions against established editors for minor problems in a contentious area is likely to lead to a lot more complaints about minor problems. What an abject failure to assume good faith. I can see how it might have sounded that way but I assure you it's not my intention to threaten or intimidate anyone.-Starke Hathaway (talk) 14:27, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

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Result concerning DHeyward

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This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • @MONGO: You'll note with the last several requests posted here I participated but I did not close or sanction, and I was not planning on doing so here. I have various reasons for taking this approach, mostly because I'm weary of being a target in these matters. I respect your request and the very civil way in which you have framed it, but I don't think the dim memory of editing some political articles with DHeyward back in 2006 or so really adds up to involvement. I fear you have inadvertently given the peanut gallery another talking point regarding my participation, however. Gamaliel (talk) 23:18, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Vordrak: Unless you are going to provide any evidence or an explanation regarding a policy violation on my part, please remove your comment. Making unsubstantiated accusations is irresponsible and disruptive. Gamaliel (talk) 19:26, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @PeterTheFourth: I have examined MONGO's allegations in detail. Your edits to Chris Kyle were minor, and your edits to Anthony Watts (blogger) were to revert a user who has now been topic banned, so I find nothing to be concerned with there. Your edits to American Sniper (film) are another matter, where in one edit you reverted DHeyward and called him out in an edit summary. I make no judgement about the merits of those edits, and you both are free to edit any article on Wikipedia. However, if you are going to limit yourself to working in a particular topic area, when you step out of that area to edit unrelated articles also edited by an editor you are in conflict with in that topic area, it creates the perception of WP:WIKIHOUNDING. I don't see enough here to add up to a pattern, but I would still advise you to widen your areas of editing on Wikipedia and to try to avoid the appearance of WikiHounding. A trout should suffice now, but should this escalate, I imagine we'll be back here discussing an interaction ban. Gamaliel (talk) 19:26, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @DHeyward: On an individual level, I don't find any of the alleged WP:FORUM violations particularly compelling except for #4 listed by Woodroar, which I am willing to accept was unintentional. And there is something to the idea that we all use the talk page for unrelated chit chat or pontificating sometimes. But you were specifically warned about this particular behavior by admins Zad68 and HJ Mitchell, the latter of whom noted it in his log after blocking you for 48 hours. I am more concerned about the constant sniping at PeterTheFourth (if you have a problem with his behavior, you should bring it here in the form of a formal complaint) and the numerous 1RR (and even a 3RR) violations that have gone unsanctioned. All of this adds up to a pattern of disruptive behavior. Given that you have been sanctioned and even outright blocked for your previous behavior, I recommend a topic ban for at least a week, which I think is reasonable and lenient given the number of cautions you have received and the fact that a different longtime editor on this topic area was recently indefinitely topic banned. Gamaliel (talk) 19:26, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Saying "But it says original research is allowed on Talk pages" is very facile, and ColorOfSuffering I've seen you handle nuance before. Read the WP:NOR policy Talk page, there's discussion on the limits of this. You can't use this as a loophole to get around other policies like WP:NOT (which is policy, in fact part of the 5 pillars) or WP:BLP.

The argument that DHeyward violated WP:1RR is: 1RR is violated when an editor makes "an edit ... that undoes other editors' actions" (that's the definition of "revert" per the WP:3RR policy page) more than one time in a 24 hour period. The introduction of the "threat of a mass shooting at a public speaking event" content in the lead was done by editor Parabolist with this edit back on 27 January 2015, and it's been pretty stable there since (minor copyedits), so it can be considered to have pretty solid consensus. DHeyward undid Parabolist's action of adding this content to the lead: one time with this edit (removed the entire phrase "and the threat of a mass shooting at a university speaking event") and a second time about 6 1/2 hours later here, violating 1RR.

Even if it can be successfully argued that these 2 edits didn't violate 1RR, it's very concerning to me that in the editing environment at the article, that anybody could think just having a second go at making the exact same edit soon after it was challenged with a revert would be OK, and doesn't give me confidence that DHeyward will behave differently going forward.

DHeyward's offer "I will voluntarily take a week off gamergate topic just to stop the bickering." is not satisfactory, this is pretty plainly stating "I don't think I did anything wrong but I'll lay low for a short while." If we were to accept this, we could be pretty confident the same behaviors would return in short order.

Given that there's been no change in behavior after repeated warnings and even previous short sanctions, I don't think a 1-week topic ban would be sufficient, I'm leaning to 3 months, Gamaliel I'd be interested in your view on that. Zad68 03:26, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Zad68: I agree with your interpretation of DHeyward's offer. I believe it was made in good faith, but I do think that it is problematic for the same reason you do. I don't have a problem with the length of the sanction as long as something formal is logged, as I think we're past the point of informal warnings. Gamaliel (talk) 16:54, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@ColorOfSuffering: WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. There seems to be little in your comment about DHeyward and much snark directed at Zad68 and others. Please keep further comments civil and on topic. Thank you. Gamaliel (talk) 19:46, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Atsme

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TheRedPenOfDoom

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