JOSH BAKER, HOST:
I just wanted to make you aware that there is some content in this episode that you may find upsetting.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
BAKER: There are moments in history where everything changes, where you mark a before and an after. This is one of them.
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UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR #1: (Speaking Arabic).
BAKER: It's 8 December 2024. A Syrian news anchor appears on television. He pauses, glances at his watch and then looks up and speaks directly to the nation.
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UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR #1: (Speaking Arabic).
BAKER: He says, "it's now exactly 18 minutes past 6 in Damascus. This is Syria without President Bashar al-Assad. The regime has fallen."
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UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: (Chanting in non-English language).
(SOUNDBITE OF HORN HONKING)
BAKER: I struggle to stay on my feet as the crowd surges in downtown Damascus. A burst of sunlight strikes a flag that's draped across a man's back. It's the flag of the revolution. Wearing that here just a few days ago would have gotten you killed. But now, 50 years of rule by the Assad family in Syria is over.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: (Singing in non-English language).
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL RINGING)
BAKER: Away from the crowd, Damascus feels suspended, like it's holding its breath. Shops are mostly shuttered. Streets are virtually empty. Overnight, the army vanished. The police are also gone. Their deserted vehicles litter the roads.
(SOUNDBITE OF GUNFIRE)
BAKER: In some neighborhoods, fighting has broken out between loyalists of the Assad regime and the group that's driven them from power.
(SOUNDBITE OF DRONE BUZZING)
BAKER: I can hear surveillance drones above us. They're watching everything. Beneath their gaze, black smoke rises from airstrikes that are falling across Damascus.
(SOUNDBITE OF MISSILE EXPLODING)
BAKER: Sometimes they land nearby. It's the Israeli air force striking what it says are Syrian weapons stockpiles. They say they don't want armed groups to have them.
(SOUNDBITE OF HORN HONKING)
BAKER: Across the city, pictures have started to appear on walls. Each photo is someone's parent, sibling or child. More than a hundred thousand people have gone missing since the civil war began. Many vanished into Syria's prison system, just like Austin Tice, an American journalist who disappeared more than a decade ago while working here.
(SOUNDBITE OF ENGINE CHUGGING)
BAKER: This is the backdrop to our search for Austin. I've been given a purple folder. It contains coordinates that were gathered by Western intelligence agencies for where Austin might be, and for the first time, with the regime gone, we can get inside those facilities. So despite the situation being chaotic and dangerous, we're going to search those sites across Damascus one by one, because somewhere in the ruins of this regime lies the truth about what happened to Austin Tice.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
BAKER: I'm Josh Baker, and from BBC Radio 4 and NPR's EMBEDDED, this is Where Is Austin Tice? Series 3 of "I'm Not A Monster Presents..."
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
BAKER: Episode 2 - A Black Box.
(SOUNDBITE OF PAPER RUSTLING)
BAKER: Here are...
(SOUNDBITE OF PAPER RUSTLING)
BAKER: ...Coordinates...
SARA OBEIDAT, HOST:
What?
BAKER: ...Relating to Austin's location. And this goes back sometime, right?
OBEIDAT: OK.
BAKER: So the difficulty is knowing which locations are more relevant.
My colleague Sara and I are at a hotel going through the purple folder that contains the list of locations where Austin might be held. Some are prisons, but others seem to be secret facilities.
OBEIDAT: Can I have a look at the locations?
BAKER: Yeah, yeah.
OBEIDAT: OK. Let me see.
BAKER: On the left-hand side.
OBEIDAT: Yeah.
BAKER: This is the branch number, like 215.
OBEIDAT: So this is Syrian military intelligence 215. This is a notorious branch. I know some people who were held there. And there were always allegations of torture that came out of that prison. OK, so this is Syrian military intelligence 235. It's, like, colloquially known as Palestine Branch.
BAKER: Right, which is what our other source told us. Do you remember?
OBEIDAT: Yeah.
BAKER: 235, Palestine Branch. That's the same location, Salam, the source I met in the English countryside had told me that Austin was held at. And now I'm seeing it in these files. So we head there.
OUDAY AL HUSSEIN, BYLINE: (Speaking Arabic).
BAKER: All good?
AL HUSSEIN: Good.
BAKER: It's kind of amazing how easily he can get the gates open for us.
OBEIDAT: He's from the same area that the rebels are from.
BAKER: Right.
OBEIDAT: So there's trust.
BAKER: Our Syrian producer, Ouday Al Hussein, is from Idlib, the heart of the revolution. And that helps when you're asking armed men to open a gate. Palestine Branch, as it's known locally, got its name because it was originally set up to deal with security matters relating to Palestinians in Syria. But over time, its remit expanded dramatically, reaching into every corner of Syrian society, making it part of the regime's darker machinery - surveillance, interrogation, detention. It's a tall concrete building surrounded by high walls and barbed wire. We're told all the prisoners are gone. But Austin hasn't been found.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOORS CLOSING)
BAKER: When someone disappears, you don't just look for the person. You look for traces, a record, a cell, a name scratched into a wall. Being methodical matters because you never know what detail might help you find them.
(SOUNDBITE OF FOOTSTEPS RACING)
BAKER: Look at this.
OBEIDAT: What?
BAKER: Well, in this room, you have an interrogation room, with the camera there, yeah? Look at the mirror.
OBEIDAT: Yeah.
BAKER: And then come around to this room.
(SOUNDBITE OF METAL CLANGING)
BAKER: Comfy chairs.
OBEIDAT: To watch.
BAKER: It's a one-way mirror.
OBEIDAT: Right.
BAKER: It's the interrogation room, isn't it?
OBEIDAT: In Palestine Branch, this was an infamous room. So many people were taken to Palestine Branch at the beginning of the uprising and investigated here or interrogated, which often meant also abused.
BAKER: If you turn your torch off and I close the door, can you see how dark it is in here?
OBEIDAT: Yeah. Pitch-black.
BAKER: And you'd just have the noises of the prison outside. You would be absolutely terrified.
OBEIDAT: Yeah.
BAKER: It would drive you insane.
(SOUNDBITE OF WATER SPLASHING)
OBEIDAT: The cells are here.
BAKER: Oh, God. It's awful in here. Musty. Oh, God. This one just smells of urine.
OBEIDAT: Oh. The smell.
BAKER: Somebody's written a message on the wall in blood.
(SOUNDBITE OF WATER SPLASHING)
BAKER: The cells are partially flooded outside. Oh. I almost don't want his mum to see this. I just think the upset it would cause to know that these are the kind of conditions that your son was held in.
OBEIDAT: Yeah. Clearly, an English speaker was here.
BAKER: Oh, wow. Lots of English in here. United Kingdom.
OBEIDAT: Italia.
BAKER: So foreign prisoners in here, then.
The walls are covered in names, dates and messages to loved ones. Each cell reveals a trace of a person, slivers of used soap, brittle toothbrushes, even scraps of food that seem to have been hidden away. I've been told by Austin's father, Marc, that he might have left signs if he was ever captured. Nothing that says Austin was here. Something less obvious, meant to slip past the eyes of the regime but be recognizable to the right person. He's given me a list of phrases and markers to look for.
Can you take my glasses? So I'm taking out a UV light.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
BAKER: As grim as it sounds, urine can be used as this kind of invisible ink. The writing doesn't appear until you shine an ultraviolet light over it. It's a way to leave a trace that hides in plain sight. I switch the light on. Suddenly, the walls come alive with even more scribbles and marks.
There's something that's been drawn on here. I don't know if you can see it.
OBEIDAT: I can't see that at all. There's a bunch of English letters here.
BAKER: I passed from here in March.
We scan cell after cell, and words do appear, but nothing that points to Austin. I glance over at our Syrian producer, Ouday. He's hunched forward. His energy has drained away.
It must be quite a strange feeling to be in here as a Syrian.
AL HUSSEIN: (Speaking Arabic).
OBEIDAT: He's saying, "I've lost so many people, friends, relatives, people who I really care about that have basically been disappeared. I know that technically we won. But it doesn't feel like we won when the price was so high. We lost so many people who could have been part of this country, who just disappeared because of such basic rights that they wanted, like freedom of speech and freedom of thought."
AL HUSSEIN: (Speaking Arabic).
OBEIDAT: "It's very hard. Look at what Bashar al-Assad's rule did. Look how he treated his people. Something inside me just keeps getting more and more claustrophobic because of how sad I feel and how bitter it is."
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
BAKER: I'm sorry. You're incredibly articulate. Thank you.
OBEIDAT: There's a really sad writing on the wall that said...
BAKER: What's it say?
OBEIDAT: ...Don't trust anyone, even your own brother.
BAKER: Are you serious?
OBEIDAT: Which speaks volumes about the level of surveillance in this place. There are a lot of stories about even mothers sometimes having to tell on their kids, or wives and husbands telling on their spouses. It's grim. Anyway, did you find anything? I didn't find anything.
BAKER: No, I found nothing.
OBEIDAT: Shall we try somewhere else?
BAKER: Yeah, let's go somewhere else.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR #2: Across Syria scenes of liberation as thousands emerge from detention centers.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR #3: The search for the tens of thousands of people who disappeared after being detained.
BAKER: Men, women and even children are walking free from Syrian prisons. People are being found every day, but many are also still missing.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR #4: Families continue to search prisons and hospitals for news of their missing loved ones.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR #5: As rescuers search for secret underground cells, scenes of torture and execution under the Assad regime.
BAKER: Austin is just one case amongst tens of thousands, but his is getting huge attention.
(SOUNDBITE OF MONTAGE)
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR #6: To the search for American Austin Tice in Syria.
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR #7: Renewed hope to the family of Austin Tice. He's a journalist.
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR #8: State Department announcing a reward of up to $10 million for information leading to the recovery and return of journalist Austin Tice. He's been missing in Syria.
BAKER: The U.S. government is sending a message to the world that finding Austin is a national priority. But Syria is scattered with prisons and prisoners. So looking for Austin is a bit like looking for a needle in a stack of needles.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR #9: Rescue crews have been searching the vast mountain compound for days following rumors of a network of hidden cells underground.
BAKER: Hidden prisons are being uncovered across the country, even by us. We're searching every location that's mentioned in the purple folder and even more, day after day. We go to dozens of facilities.
OBEIDAT: This looks like a secret passage.
BAKER: I mean, I'm literally staring into a concealed room. Look at this. It's a log of people's fingerprints.
OBEIDAT: This place would've been crawling with Syrian armed forces.
BAKER: He's just got out to open a big steel gate. And now we're driving into a compound.
OBEIDAT: Look at this. Look at this.
BAKER: Oh, wow.
OBEIDAT: Clearly somebody was here.
BAKER: It almost looks like an apartment complex. I can see already that some of the rooms have been burned.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
BAKER: Some of the sites we search are prisons. Others are grand buildings with marble floors and chandeliers. But behind the opulence are hidden detention rooms. And there are secret cells dug deep underground.
Can you imagine how terrifying it would be to be led into this dark, underground passage?
OBEIDAT: Yeah. And it's cold.
BAKER: There's a unexploded grenade there. Excellent. Without the pin in it. Where do you want to go now?
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
BAKER: There's no sign of Austin yet. And there's something else we're having to contend with - a sea of new information and tips about him. Since the U.S. government offered $10 million for information, so many people claim to know where Austin is. Then social media explodes with news that Austin has been found. And a reporter posts a video.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR #10: Everybody's telling you that you're Austin Tice. They thought that you're Austin Tice first.
TRAVIS TIMMERMAN: No. I came on a religious pilgrimage. I'm a Christian.
BAKER: It's another American, called Travis Timmerman, from Missouri. He says he's been held for seven months in Syria. The U.S. government didn't know, a sign of how hard it can be to keep track of who is or isn't in prison here. He looks a lot like Austin, though. So Austin's mother, Debra, is asked to comment.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "MEET THE PRESS")
KRISTEN WELKER: And joining me now is Debra Tice, Austin's mother. Welcome to "Meet The Press," Mrs. Tice. Thank you for being here. How did that moment unfold for you?
DEBRA TICE: We had so many people reaching out - this is so great, what a wonderful day. And so it's almost like having a rehearsal, just an inkling of what it's going to really feel like when it is Austin walking free.
WELKER: How do you feel right now about your chances of finding Austin?
TICE: You know, there was a man that had been held in silence for 34 years. And he was reunited with his family. We're just really excited about being a reunited family.
BAKER: Debra is convinced Austin will be found at any moment. She draws hope from the fragments of information that hinted his whereabouts. We're in contact with Austin's family and some of the people closest to them, and every so often, they reach out with a tip, a name, a rumor about where Austin might be. I get a message on my phone. There's a location they ask me to check.
OBEIDAT: What happened?
BAKER: We believe Austin Tice is in a cell several stories down under this mountain outside of Damascus, a Syrian Iranian weapons depot that the Israelis are trying to blow up. Because of their bombardment, people on the ground are unable to check this prison.
OBEIDAT: (Speaking Arabic).
AL HUSSEIN: (Speaking Arabic).
OBEIDAT: (Speaking Arabic). OK.
They bombed that yesterday.
BAKER: Yeah, yeah. That's where they think Austin is.
OBEIDAT: What do you think, Ouday? You want to go there now?
BAKER: By a stroke of luck, we happen to be just 10 minutes away. So we start to snake our way up a mountain road towards the location. The beams of Ouday's headlights carve a narrow path through the night. Beyond them, a light mist drifts over the road.
Is there a facility up there?
There's no other cars, just whatever's waiting at the top.
AL HUSSEIN: Here.
(SOUNDBITE OF GUNSHOTS)
BAKER: Oh, gunshots.
(SOUNDBITE OF GUNSHOTS)
BAKER: Oh. That was close. Let's go.
OBEIDAT: We can't even see.
BAKER: How about turn 'round the other way?
OBEIDAT: Wait. Who's this person? There's someone coming down - look - with a gun.
BAKER: Yeah. Yeah.
As we try to drive away, men in combat fatigues with guns emerge from the roadside and stop the car. They were just shooting at us. We try to calm the situation.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: (Speaking Arabic).
BAKER: (Speaking Arabic).
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: (Speaking Arabic).
BAKER: Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: (Speaking Arabic).
OBEIDAT: They said, please forgive us for being jumpy. They...
BAKER: When they say jumpy, do they mean, please forgive us for shooting at you?
OBEIDAT: Yes. They were apparently there yesterday when the Israelis struck, so they lost a lot of people. If these guys are stationed around there, would they not have found him?
BAKER: We do check with the men. They tell us they searched the facility, and nobody was there. There's still a lot of confusion.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR #11: Syria tonight. Israel launching massive air strikes as an American mother now pleads with Israel to hold off in Syria until she can find her son.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR #12: Credible information Tice may have been held in a prison near an area Israel has bombed.
BAKER: Debra has written to the Israeli prime minister asking him to hold airstrikes because she believes they're preventing Austin's rescue. And he writes back saying Israel is coordinating with the Americans to avoid putting Austin in danger. The fact he responds says something about the weight Austin's case carries. He has a huge media campaign behind him, and he's also an American citizen. That means his disappearance can reach people in the corridors of power that most Syrian families could never get to. And yet nobody has found Austin, including us. For more than a week, we've searched every location listed in the purple folder for where he might be held. So we broaden our search. There's a former regime hospital where injured prisoners were sent. Maybe Austin passed through there.
OBEIDAT: Yeah. We're in.
BAKER: I can't reach you (ph).
So we're literally pulling up to the ER arrival bit here. God, this is eerie.
OBEIDAT: Very.
BAKER: Can you see there's still tea on the side that hasn't been drunk? This is definitely a pretty untouched site.
Hospitals generate paperwork, medical files, transfer notes. If Austin was here, the regime may have written it down. Sara's reported on this facility and has been told there is a records room in the basement. At the emergency room entrance, a man with an AK-47 slung across his chest agrees to escort us. He says the building hasn't been searched, and those who worked here have fled, so no one knows what's inside.
Wow. It's literally like a ghost hospital. The lights are still on. The phone's still at the reception desk. There's even a doctor's stethoscope at the window.
We head down a narrow stairwell to the basement. The air turns thick with dust, and the light fades.
OBEIDAT: This is where the detainees would be. This floor. So it's underground. And they'd come into the hospital and be kept here.
BAKER: Can I show you something?
OBEIDAT: Yeah.
BAKER: You see this line across the floor beneath me?
OBEIDAT: Yeah.
BAKER: This is blood.
OBEIDAT: Right.
BAKER: Follow this line of blood along the floor. I know it's really disturbing. This is somebody's body that's been dragged hundreds of meters.
OBEIDAT: It smells.
BAKER: So the blood line stops about - there you go. There's the last trail of it.
OBEIDAT: Wow.
BAKER: Right outside the doors. I think I can open the door.
(SOUNDBITE OF METAL DOOR RATTLING)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: (Speaking Arabic).
OBEIDAT: I think we're the first people to come inside.
BAKER: Everyone's covering their nose 'cause of the smell. On your left appears to be what looks like coffins to me. So these are refrigerated units, which I imagine there will be bodies in.
(SOUNDBITE OF REFRIGERATED UNITS HUMMING)
BAKER: Is there?
OBEIDAT: Yes.
BAKER: You OK?
OBEIDAT: Yes, there are loads of bodies in there.
BAKER: OK. Come this way.
(SOUNDBITE OF REFRIGERATED UNITS HUMMING)
OBEIDAT: They're thrown on the floor, legs - like, I just saw the legs and the lower body of a - with too many legs, like, on top of each other. I don't know how many. Maybe, like, eight.
BAKER: You OK?
OBEIDAT: (Coughing) Yeah. It's OK.
BAKER: The bodies appear to be a mix of Syrian soldiers, possibly patients and prisoners. It's hard to know exactly who each person was. At the end of the corridor, we find rooms stacked floor to ceiling with files. It's what we've been looking for.
Oh, my God.
OBEIDAT: What's that?
BAKER: There's a folder of dead people. This person's been starved, and it's got the number on it.
OBEIDAT: This is horrific.
BAKER: They have the names and numbers on them.
OBEIDAT: There's one file just labeled as body parts.
BAKER: Oh, Jesus Christ.
OBEIDAT: What?
BAKER: Looks like a child.
OBEIDAT: Yeah, I was just thinking the same.
BAKER: This is a horror show.
It turns out these aren't medical records of the living. They belong to the dead. We find photographs of thin, starved bodies, bruises, cuts, signs of violence. Some files list the cause of death as heart attack. But the people's injuries tell a different story. Each act of cruelty has been documented. It's a catalogue of suffering, a quiet archive of the regime's brutality. And there's a section marked foreigners.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: (Non-English language spoken).
BAKER: As we pick up one of those files, the man with the AK-47, who's escorting us, gets very nervous. He's just had a phone call.
What's going on?
OBEIDAT: He's very fidgety, suddenly, and he's like, get out of here, all of you, everyone out. We're not allowed to even touch a paper, he's saying.
(CROSSTALK)
BAKER: The issue of Syria's missing is becoming increasingly sensitive for the rebels who are now in charge. Across the country, families are demanding answers, and those in power are trying to control both the prison sites and the story around them. Suddenly, we're told they don't want media here, which means we can't keep searching this place for any trace of Austin. As we walk back through the hospital complex, everything we've just seen weighs on my mind. A row of houses comes into view, each with its own lush green garden.
OBEIDAT: The senior staff would live here with their families on the hospital grounds.
BAKER: Can you imagine being in that garden with your kids? And then just over there, the probable screams that would echo out of that building?
OBEIDAT: No. I can't, actually.
BAKER: And how you'd have to have completely, like, othered and dehumanized those people to accept that.
OBEIDAT: Let's go.
BAKER: Prisoners were brought to this hospital in pain and vulnerable. They needed care. Instead, they were met with abuse and death. The regime wasn't just putting people in jail. It was quietly killing tens of thousands of them.
Can you see all the American Special Forces, security guys with earpieces in armored vehicles?
OBEIDAT: The Americans love to let people know when they're in town.
BAKER: It's about conveying a message of I wouldn't mess with us.
Twelve days after Assad's fall, an American delegation has driven into Damascus to meet the new people in charge. One of the items on their agenda is Austin Tice. They're under pressure to get answers about what happened to him.
(SOUNDBITE OF BEEPING)
OBEIDAT: (Speaking Arabic).
BAKER: They're at the Four Seasons, a place of chandeliers, fine dining, and backroom deals. For more than a decade, it's been a central meeting point for Syrian diplomacy. Right now, it feels like the country is being run from here. Amongst the American delegation, there's the FBI and Special Forces, basically people in balaclavas with big guns. And then there's the diplomats, sharp suits, notepads in hand.
I can see Roger.
ROGER CARSTENS: Hi, guys. How are you?
BAKER: Nice to see you here.
CARSTENS: How you doing?
OBEIDAT: How are you?
CARSTENS: I'm doing good. How you guys doing? You want to talk? I think they're going to take us upstairs for security reasons.
BAKER: That makes perfect sense.
This is Roger Carstens, the U.S. special presidential envoy for hostage Affairs, a former elite soldier turned chief negotiator. I've met him and his team before because they lead on the diplomatic effort to bring Austin home. We walk upstairs, flanked by bodyguards, to a secure room.
You good?
CARSTENS: Yeah.
BAKER: I put a mic on Roger. He's got limited time, and he's keen to start.
I'm just curious about what the U.S. is basically doing now to try to find Austin and what your belief is about his situation.
CARSTENS: We've been trying to find any information, whether they be interviews or documents that have come up, to try to help us fine-tune A, where Austin is, B, what happened to him and C, what's the status? The number of secret prisons that keep popping up - it's well beyond what we expected. It's just hard to comprehend.
BAKER: Given all the information that you're privy to that the public is not, given the current circumstance, are you beginning to be worried that Austin is no longer alive?
CARSTENS: Look, there is no proof that Austin is deceased, and so I have to assume that he's alive and he's still waiting for us to find him.
BAKER: I get that. Is it fair to say that, over the years, there has been so much conflicting information about whether he is alive, he isn't alive, that it is a real mixed picture?
CARSTENS: Well, if I answer that fully, I would go to jail. But I think picture someone disappearing in Syria that, to an extent, is a black box in terms of gathering information and having sources provide you information that is partially true, false, true. And we just have a hard time trying to verify it.
BAKER: Is that a diplomat's way of saying, yes, we have lots of conflicting theories?
CARSTENS: Again, not wanting to go to jail - yes.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #4: (Inaudible) with Roger.
CARSTENS: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #4: They want you to...
CARSTENS: Thirty seconds. Here we go.
BAKER: Can I ask, like, have the regime ever confirmed to you that Austin is alive?
CARSTENS: They've never confirmed that. They've never offered POL, proof of life. And they've never admitted to ever having him. So when we've talked to them, it's always been under their strong denials that they've ever had Austin Tice.
BAKER: Thanks. I know you're being pulled to your next meeting.
CARSTENS: Guys, thank you.
OBEIDAT: Thanks.
CARSTENS: All right, I'm going to sprint.
BAKER: I watched Roger disappear into a cloud of security. What stuns me is this - despite years of public statements from presidents and diplomats that suggested they could get Austin home, the U.S. government doesn't seem to know definitively who took Austin or what happened to him or even whether he's still alive.
I'd assumed there was some certainty somewhere, a piece of intelligence that answered those questions. Apparently, there isn't. It's a very different picture from what Debra Tice believes. I don't know who's correct, but right now, nobody seems to know where Austin is.
(SOUNDBITE OF PHONE BUZZING)
BAKER: As we drive across town, I get a message - are you still in Damascus? I reply yes. It's one of our most sensitive contacts. They ask that I never reveal their name because sharing information with us could pose a risk to their job and their life. They tell me they have a person working on the ground in Syria and that they found a Syrian commander who claims to know where crucial information about Austin Tice is located, and the commander has agreed to go on FaceTime and guide our sources person to the information. And they say we can go with them. So we head to an intelligence facility. The guard tells us we can enter, but we must be out by sunset. So we only have around half an hour.
All right. We've just got inside.
(SOUNDBITE OF FOOTSTEPS RACING)
BAKER: We're literally racing from room to room. He's on FaceTime video call with the commander.
(SOUNDBITE OF FOOTSTEPS RACING)
BAKER: Well, there's still a padlock on the gate. The commander says we have to get through a locked door at the end of a corridor. There doesn't seem to be any way. But then I glance to my right. There's a narrow ledge that would allow me to climb around it.
OK. It's not working. I'm going to climb over.
But it's above a five-story drop. The commander says getting past this gate is the only way to get answers about Austin. So I tell myself it's fine. Only half-believing it, I take a deep breath, swing over the edge, and reach for the wall.
OK.
My hands find grip on the dusty concrete. With my legs dangling, I pull myself up.
Managed to get around the locked gate. I'm just pushing the door so you can get in. Go, go, go. Oh, yes, you're in. OK. Do you have a torch? OK. Go, go, go.
The man and Sara come through, and we enter the room. In front of us is a massive locked safe.
OBEIDAT: He's saying, can you go look for the keys in the general's office?
BAKER: The Syrian commander messages to say to open the safe, we need a key. And that's in another room around the corner, along with the key to the gate I've just climbed around. It would have been good to know that earlier. We head to the room.
OBEIDAT: He's saying we need to look here. OK, we just need to sweep this.
BAKER: If I lift this up, can you look underneath?
OBEIDAT: Yes. Nothing here.
BAKER: From this end? Oh, my God.
OBEIDAT: Oh, my God.
BAKER: Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Let me go quickly and try.
OBEIDAT: You try.
BAKER: Yeah. Keep looking. I'm lost. Oh, why am I lost? OK, hold on. No, we're two more down. One more down? Yes, this is it. OK, let's try the gate.
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BAKER: Yes. Oh, my God, it's the key. It's the key. I've done it. I've done it. Oh, my God, it's open. Oh, my God. We found Austin's file.
In my hands are Austin Tice's secret Syrian intelligence files, and they're hundreds of pages long. I can't believe we've uncovered them. We take photos to make a copy rather than remove the evidence. These files were never meant to be seen by the outside world. Now we're about to find out what's inside.
You've been listening to Where Is Austin Tice? Series 3 of "I'm Not A Monster Presents..." Please share, rate, and review the show. It really does help. If you have any information on Austin Tice, you can email me directly on josh@bbc.co.uk, or message me on social media - @joshbakerstory.
The series is written and show-run by me, Josh Baker. The investigative producer is Sara Obeidat. The series producer is Simon Maybin. Field producing by Ouday Al Hussein. Additional producing by Lucy Burns. Open-source intelligence by Thomas Bordeaux and Gabor Friesen. Our production coordinator is Gemma Ashman. The series editor is Clare Fordham. The head of BBC News long form audio is Emma Rippon, and at BBC Radio 4, the commissioning editor is Dan Clarke.
At NPR, our producer is Monika Evstatieva. Editors are Robert Little and Katie Simon. The composer is Firas Abou Fakher. Additional music by Karim Chehoury. Theme music by Sam Slater, and it was mixed by Tom Brignell. Fact-checking by Nicolette Khan and Mary Glendinning. Our managing editor of standards and practices is Tony Cavin. Editorial review is by Kristian Monroe. Johannes Doerge provided legal support.
The showrunner and senior supervising editor of EMBEDDED is Katie Simon. Liana Simstrom is a senior supervising producer. Irene Noguchi is executive producer. Yolanda Sangweni is NPR's vice president for content, and Tommy Evans is NPR's editor in chief. And a big thanks to our NPR+ supporters. EMBEDDED is where we do ambitious long-form journalism at NPR, and NPR+ helps keep that work going. If you'd like to email the show, you can reach out at embedded@npr.org.
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