Fcukers Talk Remixing, Marathons, and New York's Underground Scene

[feedback ringing]

Hello, I think we can get started here.

My name's Jeremy Larson.

I'm the deputy director at Pitchfork.

And if everybody could please give a warm welcome

to Jackson and Shanny from Fcukers.

[audience applauding]

Oh, we were talking about,

we were just goofing around out here about running

and Shanny, I heard that you left a gig

and then went to run the Boston Marathon.

Yes. One of the most

elite marathons in the entire world.

I did do that, yeah.

[Jeremy] Tell me about that.

Well, we finished our show in Montreal at like 11:00 PM

and then I went to the Greyhound bus terminal

and then the bus broke down.

Or like, it didn't break down,

it got stuck in a tunnel that was meant for cars.

That bus driver kind of-

I don't know what he was thinking, but we got stranded,

almost missed it,

like barely made it to the start line,

like no coffee, no sleep.

Oh my God. It was crazy.

Are you a type A runner

or do you like have to have everything set?

Are you like nutrition dialed in, everything set?

I mean, I wouldn't say that, I guess,

because I was still like half tying my shoe

as the race was starting.

But it is nice when you're all dialed before the race.

Yeah. It's a lot more calm

than yeah, like pulling up to the start line

still in like your hoodie, like, you know?

Yeah. But it also like must calm the nerves a little bit

where you're just like,

'cause I think before a race,

sometimes you're sitting there for like two hours

in the freezing cold

and you're just like overthinking everything.

No, that's the thing that people don't realize,

you're gonna be waiting there for two hours.

You're gonna be cold.

[Jeremy] Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. They give you like,

have you done the New York marathon?

Yeah. Yeah.

It's like you have to, I mean,

that is an early start

because you have to get to Staten Island.

Yeah. I remember that.

It was like dark when I got to Staten Island.

I was waiting there for like three or four hours.

Yeah, and it's cold.

[Shanny] Mhm.

And you're wearing all this stuff

and then you have to ditch it somehow before the race.

Yeah.

And they have all these like bins

full of like sweatshirts and old gloves

that get donated to the-

Or people who wear,

'cause at the end of the race they give you like a poncho.

Yeah. So there are people

who run the race wearing the ponchos that they were wearing.

The old poncho, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. How long have you been running?

Honestly a long time.

I did like soccer and track all throughout school.

[Jeremy] Uh-huh.

But the long-distance running,

I feel like I got really into about five years ago.

[Jeremy] Five years ago.

And like doing races and stuff.

Wow. So you went from sort of like,

I'm gonna be a long distance runner,

to like, I'm running the Boston Marathon

in five years?

Yeah.

So running must come pretty natural to you.

Yeah, I love it a lot.

Yeah. It's my hobby.

What do you listen to when you run?

I have a crazy playlist, honestly.

Okay. Do you find that-

[Shanny chuckling]

Or I just listen to one song on a loop the whole time.

So there's two things that happen to me.

Like one, I have a crazy playlist

that is almost like a different human, you know?

Where just like this human's sort of like a private human

that like I will not reveal that I'm listening to nu metal.

I will never leak a running playlist.

Oh no, don't like,

if somebody finds that.

Exactly, like there's like way too much Staind down there.

And I'm just like I can't have anybody-

But there's something in my brain.

I wonder if this is the same with you.

There's something just sort of out of like

either the oxygen leaves it

or something happens where all of a sudden,

all I care about is like music at 180 BPM.

Totally, dude.

And it just like,

I do not care what it is as long as it has that thing.

Yeah. That's what'll do it.

My playlist is all BPM-related.

[Jeremy] Yeah. And I did

the Hockney Half Marathon a few weeks ago

and I just listened to Paper Planes,

M.I.A. DFA remix on a loop whole time

[Jeremy vocalizing]

'cause I wanted to get my personal record time.

[Jeremy] That was, how did it go?

It went well. I got it.

[Jeremy] Nice. On sub 90?

No.

[Jeremy] Oh. But 01:46.

Oh, that's amazing.

Yeah. Congrats. That's huge.

Thank you.

Jackson, what's your marathon record time?

[Shanny laughing]

No marathons for me.

Were you a sporting guy growing up?

Yeah, I was.

I actually ran track in high school and stuff.

But then I just, as I got older,

I don't know, I'm like I just walk around in Tims now.

Yeah. All the time

instead of running.

[Jeremy] That's good.

Feel like an old man.

I do marathons of my own.

[Jeremy] Yeah. They're just not running.

[Shanny laughing] Kind of.

Do you have an activity or like a side project

where like a different part of your like musical self

comes out?

Whether it's just sort of like either like walking around

or producing or remixing or something like that,

or you're just sort of like,

I'm gonna get in touch with something

that I don't really show to anybody else.

Sometimes I do like with the remixing.

Yeah. 'Cause I think you can,

at least for me, I think what's really fun

is kind of disappearing

into sometimes even a different genre sphere.

Yeah. Than I'm,

you know, usually in.

And a lot of times with remixes,

'cause we've done a, I feel like decent amount.

[Jeremy] Yeah. Also I just know

the ones that are about to come out.

So it feels like we've done a lot.

But you know, I feel like they always, with remixes,

it's like you usually don't get much time

when the artist or label commissions you to do one.

How much time, like what is the time-

[Jackson] What's the record like shortest time?

What's the record like you gotta submit this remix?

I remember the shortest one was we just did one recently

that was for the seven inch release

of House Tour, Sabrina Carpenter.

Whoa. Yeah.

And- Is that out?

It's, I think the record's supposed to be out this month.

Oh, cool. Actually, yeah.

So they pressed it.

And I had five days.

Whoa. And we were on tour,

but this is actually a perfect example

to answer to the other question

because I remember we were on tour,

got hit up,

and obviously I was like,

Oh my God, five days. Like that's...

And we're, I'm not even, don't even have my studio really.

But we were in Miami.

We were DJing at Ultra, this crazy EDM music festival.

And a friend of mine, shout out Jubilee, the DJ-

Yeah.

Who lives in New York, who's a great DJ,

and she plays a lot of kind of Miami bass music.

So I was just listening to Miami bass like all day

even though I don't really listen to that.

So then when I went and had five days for the remix,

I literally basically made like a Miami bass,

like Sabrina Carpenter like kind of remix, you know? So.

That's amazing.

Yeah. But I feel like

it's always you get stuff and it's just,

I always feel like I end up with remixes

just remixing it in the vibe of like

whatever that day is feeling.

Well, like so much about dance music and electronic music.

I mean, this is true of all music,

but just 'cause we're talking about this,

like so much of it is about

kind of almost like hearing something

that you've never heard before

and just like this, like, I'm aware of what Miami bass is.

Like I'm aware of like, you know, where it came from,

the sort of like electro sort of like sped-up kind of thing.

The break beat and all that

and the, you know, and everything.

But then you sort of, you're in the right situation

and you're like, Oh, like it just clicked for me. Right?

Yeah. And like,

and I think what's great,

and then you sort of,

then it's like, oh, that happens to me.

It's like I'll hear like something,

you know, like a early EBM,

like early like, so that kind of thing.

I'm just like, Yeah, I like it.

And then I just heard somebody DJ with it

and I'm just like, Oh, now I get it.

Now I wanna go down this rabbit hole

of listening to everything like this, right?

And I think that's like what's so great about,

what I love about your music

is that I kind of feel like

I'm listening to somebody

with like a really voracious appetite

for a lot of different types of music.

New record Ö just came out on Ninja Tune.

And then there's a song on there

that I kind of wanted to start talking to you about.

It's Butterflies.

And Butterflies,

I think that's one of my favorite songs

just because it starts with

this kind of almost like a house piano thing, right?

[Jackson] Mhm. Yeah.

Right. But then it kind of goes

into like a break beat thing.

And I hear, and it's almost just like,

oh, I'm hearing you pick and choose

little moments of things like that.

So I guess maybe talk about Butterflies.

Like I think that's an interesting song.

How did that song like kind of start and come about?

I mean, I feel like with this album

that we just cut,

especially with, you know, Butterflies,

that we were kind of trying to

do as many combinations of things as we can.

Yeah. That was kind of

this idea we had

where we were almost trying to re-contextualize

a lot of the club music from our youth.

Yeah.

Because our EP, when we dropped our EP,

it was a lot more, I'd say, like '90s influences and stuff.

And with this album at the time, once again,

we talk about just at the time.

Yeah. Her and I

were listening to,

I remember we were driving in the car

and we would just be listening to, you know,

OutKast and N.E.R.D.

Yeah. And Nelly, Hot in Herre.

And and I remember with Butterflies,

it was kind of like,

that was one of the,

I think towards the later of when we were cutting the album.

Yeah.

And we knew that we wanted to do a UKG track,

like on the record.

We were like, okay, UKG's one.

We want one UKG.

And then I remember we were kind of using that Triton,

which is a synth, like a chord Triton,

which was like the, I mean, tons of people have used it,

but it was also like Pharrell's go-to synth, you know,

in that big hits era.

So that Triton guitar sound-

Yeah. That's those,

which is like, it doesn't sound like a guitar.

No. You know, but it's like,

it's that classic Nelly Hot in Herre,

like Pharrell fronting.

So we had used that sound on a couple,

you know, on other cuts on the album.

And I remember like laying down the chords

and then we were like,

Wouldn't it be cool if it was like Pharrell R&B, but UKG?

Yeah. You know?

And then try to go into the chorus.

And actually I remember too,

when we were working on that,

we could not figure out-

The chords. The chords on the chorus.

And it was- And we literally

all were like, All right, no, I got it.

And we were like, Wait, no, no. What is it?

And then like, like, Okay, I've figured it out.

And then it wouldn't be like right. I don't know.

'Cause yeah, none of us are like music theory geniuses.

You know? It's like we usually just plot around.

Yeah. And the chords

for the verses were kind of jazzy.

Yeah. And I remember

we just were like trying to find the combo that worked.

And it was, you know,

when we were in the studio with Kenny Beats and Dylan Brady,

it was like we'd find one chord and be like,

Oh no, but that's the one we were starting with

in the last one.

And it was just like- Between the four of us.

Yeah. We could not

figure it out for a second. Yeah.

Everyone's getting confused for a while.

Yeah. But yeah, it got there.

I there's so many,

I mean, there's so many house producers

who kind of stumble upon brilliance with,

because composing music electronically

or like, you know, like a DAW,

like you have to think differently

than working on a keyboard, right?

Yeah. And it's like,

if you're just sort of like looking at lines on a screen,

that's gonna take you somewhere different

than like knowing

what a G minor seven flat nine chord is, right?

And it's like, I was listening to these early

Kerri Chandler records.

[Jackson] Yeah. And it's like,

I don't know how you land.

Like if you put this in front of like a jazz piano player,

a classical piano player,

they would never land on the voicings that he lands on,

the way it moves, the way it feels in a song.

Like you listen to like Bar A Thym

or I'm sorry, I don't,

my Welsh or Scottish is not that great.

Anyway, but like you listen to like

how those chords move in that sound

and it's so weird and it's so disorienting.

But you can tell, I think,

that like he composed it,

used it like visually, you know?

[Jackson] Yeah. And that's amazing, right?

[Jackson] Like- Yeah.

I mean, most of the time,

I'd actually say like 95% of the time on our records,

we lay everything down on keyboard.

[Jackson] Yeah. We don't

do the writing.

You know, we actually use a lot of analog synths and stuff.

But I remember- You midi into the-

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And mostly we actually just used like hardware synths.

Like on the record.

Even the new record was mostly just playing in synth bits.

You know, we didn't even, we weren't even sending midi.

Oh wow. To be honest.

But the thing is with the chords though,

it was like with the Kerri Chandler stuff

that I think is so amazing about dance music

is because so much of dance music is sampled.

Yeah. The reason

that the chord progressions sound so weird

is because Kerri Chandler, for example,

or I could name-

Yeah. 10 billion other songs,

most of them were cut this way,

is they would sample, they would take one chord-

Yeah. From like a jazz record,

put it into the sampler,

and then pitch it differently for the two other chords.

Yeah. So that's why

you're getting really weird combos

'cause it's like a pitched major set.

It's like the same chord pitched different three ways.

So cool. 'Cause I remember

it took me so long to figure that out.

By the way, I listened to these records

and I'd be like, How, why did they, what chord is that?

I'd be looking on the keyboard trying to find it.

And then eventually I realized and I was like,

Oh my God, they're just, they're pitching one chord.

Yeah. You know?

Yeah. What was it like to sort of all of a sudden go from,

All right, we're just making this EP,

we're putting it together with what we got,

to like, I am in a room full of like

six figures worth of like hardware to work with.

Was that almost like, was it too much?

Was it like a paralyzed choice?

Like how did you figure out like what to gravitate to?

It was funny actually

'cause on the song Shake It Up on our album,

like that's literally Jackson and I

playing like the two like worst toy like keyboards

in Kenny's studio.

Yeah. It was funny.

Like he has like all these,

like everything you could ever want.

And then like Jackson and I

just have like these two little like baby keyboards.

It was pretty funny.

That's cool. Yeah.

That's cool.

I actually, so I was in the record store the other day.

Great record store.

I'll remember the name of it by the end of it.

And I heard this record. Do you guys know this record?

Liaisons Dangereuses?

[Jackson] No. That looks

familiar. Do you guys,

anyone know this record?

Show of hands. Yeah.

You got one.

This record kicks ass, right?

This record's great.

So they were playing it and I was like, What is this?

And it's one of the early members of...

Oh my God, I've been working on

pronouncing this all weekend.

Einstürzenden Neubauten.

[Jackson] Oh, wow. Okay.

Beate Bartel.

[Jackson] Yeah, yeah.

She was like one of the early members

of Einstürzenden.

And she kind of sings on this record.

I wanted to give you guys this record

because this record has a

really interesting story. Thank you.

This is like reverse [indistinct],

'cause I don't know if you guys know this, right,

but I am stealing kind of the stage a little bit.

Thank you so much. But I want you guys

to have this record

'cause there's a really interesting story

about like influence and how like songs travel.

So like the second song on that,

what's the second song say?

I don't remember.

[Both] It's a- Los Niños

Del Parque.

Oh, wait. I know that song.

So that song,

so these were just,

they were making this music here,

and then somehow that song traveled to Chicago.

And all these Chicago house people

started playing that song.

And people in Chicago are like,

Where can I get this record?

And then the record just,

they only printed so many copies of the record

and it went out of print.

Then it became like a really sought-after record

for a really long time

because that one song got played by like Chicago house DJs.

And it does have a kind of like

high-energy proto house thing.

Like the sort of,

and then the rest of the record's sort of like

kind of punk, techno.

You'll be blown away that it was recorded in 1981.

[Jackson] Yeah. It's really, really cool.

But then, you know,

that song sort of like made its way to Detroit.

And then Detroit music made its way back

over to like Bristol and like made it-

And it's so amazing to think like

of the provenance of a song and how that travels.

And it took so long

for a song to kind of make its way into dance music,

from people taping acid like house in Chicago

and those acid tapes making its way over to like,

you know, the UK and that spawning entire genres of itself.

You guys talk about like how you're like,

you wanted to put so many different kinds of like music

and so many different like styles of music on there.

How do you think about influence?

How do you think about your taste

and putting that onto a record?

And what do you sort of feel that you're,

like how do you best capture that in the moment?

I think influence is kind of funny

because like you could be influenced by things all the time

that you don't even realize-

Yeah. In a way.

So like I think there's sometimes intention

in like, okay,

like this is a reference or this, or stuff like that.

But I think also,

I don't know, it's interesting to think about like

things that are just inherently like influencing you

and you might not even know-

Yeah. Could be like surroundings.

It could be like where you grew up.

Right. It could be a lot of things.

Yeah. It was funny too,

'cause I feel like with this past record,

it was almost like we kind of didn't go in saying,

This is what it's gonna be and we have this concept.

It was, we started to work on it

and I remember four to five tracks in,

in the first week, themes started to emerge.

And then we almost started to go,

Okay, here's the through line.

We're liking this.

And the through line is feeling like weird,

you know, more minimal arrangements kind of

because a lot of those references

we were talking about before,

like the N.E.R.D.,

the, you know, Nelly Hot in Herre, I keep bringing up.

But it's like those songs have very few elements

actually in them.

You listen to Nelly Hot in Herre, it's like four things.

Yeah. Four things.

You know, nothing else.

So we felt like,

I think the only kind of parameters

we put around the album was kind of this,

it needed to be hot and minimal.

You know, it needed to be...

And I think Kenny was good about that too,

'cause it's something we talked about

where we tried to keep it.

We were like, No, it needs to be like hot enough

with just four things.

Yeah. And then also

we felt like it would maybe give,

'cause we were genre-hopping so much

that it was like the minimalism would help give us some-

Yeah. Some cohesion.

Uh-huh. You know?

There's, well, it's interesting like working with Kenny

'cause Kenny's being like,

I can't wait to, you know,

I'm putting words in his mouth

because it seems like he very much wants to like

expand beyond being known

as just like a hip-hop and rap producer.

And then you guys are like,

We got what, about Neptunes.

And he's like, Oh man,

now I'm back into like the hip-hop way again.

It was funny though, 'cause I feel like

we were like, it was the odd couple.

Yeah. Because we went in

not knowing much about him.

Yeah. Like not, you know,

I'm being completely honest.

And the thing was when we went into the studio to meet him,

the Geese album had not come out.

So it wasn't like everyone was talking about Kenny Beats.

Yeah. It was this

Kenny Beats Renaissance.

It was kind of like no one knew.

He had stopped touring his solo stuff.

He had kind of gone away-

Yeah. For a year

to build his studio.

So it was kind of like he had been laying low.

Yeah. And we didn't

know that much.

And it was funny 'cause when we went in to meet,

it was like he had just finished the Geese album,

recording it.

Oh, wow. And he was getting

mixes back.

And I remember he was like,

I just finished this record. It's really weird.

Just finished this really weird record.

And he played it for us.

And I remember we were like,

Well, that's not hip-hop.

You know?

'Cause we just though he was like hip-hop guy.

Yeah. And the only demo we had

was one of Feel the Real,

the last track on the album,

which is like the most down tempo.

Yeah.

And I remember him saying that he was like,

Well, this isn't like Bon Bon, you know?

And then it was kind of, we had this double take

[Jeremy laughing]

kind of moment and started working together.

But I think the weird combination really worked

'cause it was funny.

There was this like push and pull

where I think every time

I kept wanting to go house on everything

and he'd be like, Ugh, you know,

You don't need to go house.

Shrink those high hats down a little bit more, you know?

Yeah.

I mean, I think you and Geese

are kind of in very similar positions,

is that all of a sudden

you've got like the amount of people listening to your music

or like looking at you has grown exponentially

in a very short amount of time.

And how does that play with like

the timeline of the band, right?.

Like, 'cause when you start,

you're just like, I'm just making music. I don't know.

But then all of a sudden you're like,

Oh, this could be a career.

Like now I have to think about it as like a step, right?

Like this is the next step in the thing, right?

And I'm like, Geese are thinking about that right now.

It's like, you know, we're like, whatever.

Like we're gonna try to do like a story with them.

And their management and publicist was like,

and they were gonna put out like a new record.

They're like, they've got music, you know?

Like I'm sure you guys have music going on, right?

But their publicists and management were like,

a record like this comes around once in a lifetime.

Ride this wave for as long as possible, right?

[Jackson] Yeah. And I'm curious like how,

when you first started, like,

did you plan on being like,

All right, we're going to do like

this, this, this, this, this.

And did that change?

No. I mean, when we first started,

we literally had no intention of anything.

[Jeremy laughing] Yeah.

That's beautiful.

We just kind of wanted to make music for fun

and for us

'cause we had both been in bands before.

Yeah.

And separately on our own, like before we even met,

we were both kind of like starting to experiment

making electronic music.

And then when we met,

it was kind of like, Oh, should we just like mess around

and like maybe make some songs?

And we did,

but we never had any plan of like,

Okay, we're gonna put this out

and then we're gonna go on tour.

And then like we literally though we'd play one show ever

for our friends, like for fun

and that would be that.

There was like a weird, actually when we started,

there was kind of this weird nihilism

to like, I feel like the way we were viewing it

because when we met,

what we both had in common

is that we had played in bands for years.

Yeah. You know,

hers had had a lot more success than mine did.

I always played in incredibly failed bands, you know?

Yeah. Like one after another.

But I was content.

I was living in New York. I was DJing all the time.

You know, I was partying a lot and whatever,

but I literally thought in my head

the thing we had kind of in common

was we were like, Well, we're 25 now,

so we kind of missed the boat.

We're too old for the music industry.

And we kind of were like, you know,

forgive the explicative, but we were like, Fuck it.

Yeah. You know,

what we talked about when we met was,

Fuck it. We just wanna make music for fun.

We kind of missed the boat on having a music career.

This was like an honest thing we talked about.

And we were like, But we're cool with that.

And I had a French Connection hoodie at the time

that I thrifted.

And the band name came out of that

because we had had those conversations

and we were like,

Man, that perfectly encapsulates the thesis statement

of kind of just us screwing around and like, fuck it.

Yeah. Like not

commercially viable.

No, I literally remember like

we finally finished the first song that we put out.

And I was like, Wait, Jackson, one sec,

like what are we gonna, what's our name?

And he was like, I have this idea, like Fcukers.

And I was like, Okay, yeah, that sounds good.

Like I don't know.

I didn't even think about it 'cause like it wasn't like-

'Cause you weren't thinking about what it was gonna be.

It was just like, Fuck it. Yeah.

And I remember like, I think my grandma was like,

How are they gonna ever like play you on the radio?

And I was like, I don't know. Like don't know.

Not my problem.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like 'cause I never even thought

that would be like a thing, you know?

Like it was just really for fun and for us.

What was the, before you started this band,

what bands were you in before then?

And actually to give more color to this question,

what was the first time you performed

a song you wrote on stage?

Oh.

The stage one?

I don't know. I can't even remember.

Maybe at like an open mic in New York City.

Yeah.

When I was like 15 or 16 or something.

kind of open mics were you going to?

Sidewalk Cafe.

Wow. RIP.

RIP.

Yeah. [laughing]

[Jeremy laughing]

But yeah.

What other, like,

what were you trying to write when you were 15?

I don't even know.

Yeah? Yeah,

just like love songs, I guess.

But you were you just like,

I just wanna be in front of people and play this?

I don't really know.

I think they just, like, would take my fake ID there.

[Jeremy laughing]

[Shanny laughing]

That's great.

Yeah. That's great.

What about you?

What was the first time, like, you played something

that you produced, that you put in front of people?

You slip it into DJ sets?

No, there was the first time I played something I wrote.

It was probably my band in high school.

Yeah? What were they called?

It was called Finding X,

because I really liked

the Sneaker Pimps album, Becoming X.

Yeah. That was like

my favorite album when I was in high school.

Okay. Is that Spin Spin Sugar?

Yep. Is on that.

Yeah, that was my favorite record.

Of course, we sounded nothing like Sneaker Pimps.

It was kind of bad, like, rap rock, actually.

Our singer would kind of rap

and we would do Rage Against the Machine cover.

Oh my God, me too.

That kind of stuff.

Yeah. It was sick.

And I remember, like,

our keyboard player's mom would get so upset

in the Rage songs

when we'd start, like, doing all the cursing.

[Shanny laughing] You know?

And but we played,

there was a church school near where I grew up

called Our Lady of Good Counsel

is what it was called.

And the first show I ever played was,

yes, Our Lady of Good Counsel Fair.

That's beautiful. In the parking lot too.

Oh, yeah.

We drove by there recently and Jackson showed me.

To 10 people.

And we played all covers

except one song that we had composed.

And I don't even know what to say about it.

It was like so, so weird, like, genre-less.

I remember people going in were like,

No, describe the sound. What's it gonna be?

And I was like, I don't even know.

Like, I can't describe it.

And then afterwards they were like,

You're right. I don't even know.

[Jeremy laughing]

I don't even know what that was.

You know?

I was in a band when I was in high school

called Resurrected Grooves.

[Jackson] Okay.

A funk rock band.

[Jackson] Yeah. And we covered Incubus

as was the style at the time.

And we covered Killing in the Name.

And I remember we were playing, like,

a local, like, 4th of July fair

in this pavilion in this tiny town.

And there was just, like,

five people in the audience in lawn chairs.

[Jackson] Yeah, yeah.

And I was like, and I sang.

I had to, like, sing a song.

I played saxophone and I sang a song.

And next on the setlist was Killing in the Name.

And I was like, We don't need to do this right now.

[Jackson] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But the drummer was like, No, we're doing it.

[Jackson] Yeah. And he started.

And me and the guitarist were like,

We're not doing this song.

[Jackson] Yeah, yeah. But the bassist

and the drummer were like,

No, we're doing the song.

[Jackson] Yeah. And we're having this,

like, fight on stage

of, like, whether we were going to perform

a Rage Against the Machine song-

[Jackson] Yeah.

For five people in the audience.

And it was a very tense moment in the band.

[Jackson] High school egos are crazy.

I was just like, Read the room, man.

We're not gonna do this song right now.

Can't do that.

So when you were growing up,

is there somebody who kind of is responsible for,

like, putting you on to the path of music that you got onto?

And like, how did they do that?

Kind of for either of you?

I feel like my best friend's older cousin

put me onto Sublime and it changed my life.

Whoa. When?

Yeah.

I was like 12 or 13.

Yeah.

Yeah. Just gave you, like,

the Sublime record and be like,

This is the truth.

Yeah, I played it at, like, my high school.

Wow. Like I played Santeria.

Yes. With the guitar solo and everything?

Yeah. My friend played the solo, I played bass and sang.

Nice. Yeah.

Nice. Nice. That's good.

Did your friend's cousin's,

wait, what was the relationship?

My friend's cousin.

Your friend's cousin.

Did they put you onto more stuff?

No. No, just that?

Just that. And that unlocked

a lot of things. That was all I needed.

[Jeremy and Jackson laughing]

All anyone needs, Sublime, self-titled,

maybe 40 Oz. To Freedom

if you really wanna go for it too.

What about you?

I feel like, I mean,

there was obviously like a lot of people

over the course of my life that, you know,

influenced me in some way,

but I feel like a big one was my cousin who's older than me

and was always kind of the like cool cousin in the family.

I feel like everyone's got that cool older cousin

who's like showing up to the family engagements

and they're always like really hung over.

Yeah. You know?

[Jeremy laughing] And like

when you're younger you're like,

Oh wow, like that's the cool one.

That's going for a walk on Thanksgiving, you know?

Yes. But my cousin, Jesse.

Yeah, my older cousin Jesse was a DJ in New York

and used to spend all the time turntabling,

like really amazing hands of lightning.

And I remember we got closer kind of as I got older.

And he's the one who really pushed me

to start making music again

'cause I kind of had quit these bands, was DJing.

And I remember we had this one,

him and I got lunch

and I just was going on and on

about all this '90s house I loved

and Daft Punk and you know, Justice and all that stuff.

And he turned to me and he was like,

I want you to try to make something like that.

You know? Yeah.

He was always very protective of me in the beginning

because when I started to do the club circuit in New York,

which was something he had done, you know, 10 years before,

he really didn't want me to get stuck

in just like partying all the time

and just being a club DJ.

He really was adamant

that like I needed to go back and like try to make music-

Yeah. Kind of. But yeah.

Well, there is sort of like a longstanding tradition

of like DJs being like, I just wanna be in a band.

Yeah. Like it's just like

I'm so sick of playing my music, other people's music.

Like I wanna like strap something around my neck

and play that.

I mean, there's just the whole history of music,

there's plenty of examples of that.

And I think like what's really interesting about that

is that the hybrid of these sort of the DJ-turned-band,

the band-turned-DJ

is that you kind of get to meld these two energies of music

where like so much about like making an album,

it's like, Oh, I'm making something

kind of permanent, right?

I am making some like,

oh, it's just like, well, that's it.

Front of like, that's the album.

And it's going to always be like that forever, right?

But like when you're doing a DJ set,

it's like, well it's different every single time, right?

And I think there's something really interesting

and really fascinating

and I sometimes struggle to articulate it

because I think like as a writer,

I think it's so much more easy

to explain why I like an album that has like permanence

because I like writing about something permanent

and you feel like you can get your head around it.

It's not moving or anything.

But then sometimes I'll listen to like club music

or like house music

and I'm just like, I don't know how to describe,

like I don't know how to write about this, you know?

It sometimes it defies explanation, you know?

It's like DJ Sprinkles, like it's a situation, you know?

[Jackson] Yeah.

And yeah, like, I don't know.

[Jackson] It's context.

Yeah. You know?

And I think that's something that is so important

to think about even as we go into this AI age.

Yeah. Is I really believe

art has to exist within context.

Yeah. It doesn't have to.

Yeah. But when it doesn't,

that's what an AI song

that's uploaded with no human live show,

no cover art, no story behind it.

That's art that's not within any context.

Yeah. And for that reason,

you could upload 500,000 AI songs a day,

but because they don't sit within context,

for the large part, it doesn't touch culture.

It doesn't, you know.

Club hits or, you know,

in specific, like, you know,

not in specific, but you can use any example.

Robin S., Show Me Love

or Basement Jaxx, Where's Your Head At,

you know, those are great songs.

Obviously, they're indisputable great songs.

But part of it is also that when it comes on in the club,

everyone knows it.

Yeah. And there's

a communal context.

And part of the experience is hearing that song

in a room full of people who you also know-

Yeah. That everyone else knows it.

Or as you said, like when hearing that EBM song

played in that context or, you know,

it's like, that's why they talk about DJing.

It's like sometimes a song sounds different

because it was played after this other song-

Yeah. Contextually.

Or it was played at the end of the night.

Yeah. And it was a disco song,

but the DJ was playing techno the whole night

and then it came out of left

or you were on drugs

and you know, the ecstasy was good or whatever.

Yeah. And that's the context,

you know?

Yeah. There's like a famous example of

I don't know, I think it was like Ricardo Villalobos

playing Ravel's Bolero,

like at New Year's Eve at a like Panorama Bar.

Yeah. And I'm just like,

who can get away with playing Ravel like in a DJ set?

And people just talk about it,

it's just like you had to be there, man.

[Jackson] Yeah. Like it was,

I think it was some edit or remix of it

or something like that.

But it was, you know,

there wasn't like a 808 bass underneath it.

It was just the stuff like that.

I guess like

and maybe Shanny, you can kind of like speak to this too,

is that if you're on stage,

like how do you bring that energy

of like surprise and context

like now that you have a band?

I mean, I think it's like,

it's actually funny 'cause on our first show ever,

after having like toured in

kind of a dreamy indie band for years

and like sang really soft and played the bass

and like I think it was kind of like

I had, on our first show ever,

like I had a really different experience on stage

than I had ever had

where I was just like jumping around and dancing

and like interacting with people in the crowd way more.

And I think like we always have wanted it to feel like that.

Like it's like we're all here, dance party together.

Yeah. Instead of like

we're performing and you're watching us, you know?

Yeah. Yeah.

And there, I mean, it obviously,

this is gonna sound extremely facile,

but just like when you're in a band, it's you.

It's like it's your music on stage

and it's your eyes, it's your body.

It's like it's a little bit more of a,

there's less of a filter there.

Like if you're, you know,

if you're DJing or just sort of,

or like you're sort of like,

well, it's other people's music, you know,

at slightly different tempos, you know,

like that's, you know, not to oversimplify it.

But like when you're putting yourself out there,

there is like risk to that, right?

Like there is, especially when you're doing new things,

especially if you're in a different environment,

especially if you're trying to keep it interesting

for yourselves on stage

and being like, Oh man, it's the end of tour.

Like we gotta figure out a new way to do this song

'cause like it's lost for me.

Or like, I'm tired today

and I can't do the like the stage guy.

I can't be stage guy today.

We have to do something different.

Are there moments from this last tour

where you had to be like,

All right, we gotta change this song up

because like it's lost that to me.

I mean, I think sometimes, yeah,

we like change up the set list a bit,

but I feel like it's all just based on,

yeah, like how it's feeling to us

and like, I don't know.

Yeah. Yeah.

You guys are doing a couple DJ sets coming up.

What do you like to play right now?

I think it's like it just is all,

you know, context once again of like where we are.

Yeah. You know, usually.

So it was like we were just in Paris on Tuesday

and we did a after party

where we went back to back with Cassius.

Oh yeah. Hubert, you know,

BoomBass from Cassius.

And like, you know, a hero of mine.

The first club 12 inch I ever bought was Cassius.

Wow. So for that night

we played a lot of like, you know,

groovy kind of like French house kind of stuff.

Yeah.

And, but then we, you know,

two weeks ago we were in Manchester.

Yeah. And we DJed

an after party there

and I was playing Dizzee Rascal, Baseline Junkie.

You know what I mean?

So it's, I think it's wherever we are.

Yeah. You know.

Switch it up.

What are you guys getting better at as a band?

Getting better at taking naps.

Yeah? Yeah.

It's important. Yeah, I'm not so good at it.

Disco naps?

Yeah, I just like,

I'll never sleep and then I'll just be like so tired

and just be like, Ah.

Yeah.

One time, like I couldn't sleep

and I was like having a panic attack.

So I was like, I need to sleep.

I'm going, losing my mind.

Yeah, I feel like-

And I like panic downloaded Headspace.

And then I was like,

Where's the sleep meditation?

And I like, I'm sitting in bed,

I'm like trying to go through it.

And then one of the things that it did,

it was like the strategy is count down from 10,000.

Like say it over and over.

It's like counting sheep,

but as opposed to going up, you're counting down.

[Jackson] Yeah. And you're,

and it's just sort of like a very simple task

to let your mind like turn off of everything else

and just focus on one task.

[Jackson] Yeah. And like that

helped me so hard.

So I give that to you. I give that to anybody-

Thank you. Who has insomnia.

You don't even have to download the Headspace app.

That's a freebie.

I know you guys have talked about

sort of you didn't even,

none of this was planned, right?

But now that there is

something kind of permanent underneath you

and there is like a kind of bass layer,

like where, and I know this is a bad question,

but let me say it's a bad question, but then ask it.

Where do you see yourself in five years?

Maybe like making some more songs.

Cool.

Dope.

Beating your marathon record?

Yeah, maybe beating my marathon record

and making some more songs.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I feel like there's a lot of albums that we wanna make.

Yeah. You know?

That's the only thing I know for sure.

I mean, I truly believe in living in the moment, you know,

I think otherwise, like,

you're gonna have a panic attack touring this much

if you're not just-

Yeah. Living in the present.

But I mean, there's so many kind of albums

that we wanna make.

Yeah. And I think the beauty

of genre-hopping like we've done,

you know, is that I feel like

we kind of can go anywhere.

Yeah. And we're definitely

gonna go in some different directions.

You're gonna utilize the EP format a little bit more?

[Jackson laughing]

I don't know. I have no idea.

Yeah. Honestly, you know?

Go with the flow. See what happens.

I mean, it's such like,

in dance music, like,

the EP is just like the, you know, is the format.

[Jackson] Yeah. It's like the four track.

[Jackson] For sure. And it's just like,

and it's, you know, it's a tool,

but it's also sort of like gives you a chance

to test out stuff, right?

You know?

[Jackson] Yeah. And I think

obviously in the sort of modern mainstream market space,

it's a hard sell to convince like your team

to be like, Hey, we're gonna push this like four track EP.

It's like, how, what am I,

you know, I was just like,

What am I gonna do here, man?

[Jackson] Yeah. Like, that can be tricky.

Like is there-

Now that you're sort of like in the gears of everything,

do you find that the impulse,

the Fuck it impulse that you started with

is bumping up against the sort of industry mechanisms?

And how are you dealing with like

those compromises and roadblocks?

I mean, I think- This is a Primavera pro-

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The one of us out of you.

I think that like we always,

no matter what, just try to make stuff

that feels true to us.

And like- Yeah.

We have kind of a really good like mutual understanding

that like if it doesn't feel good to one of us,

like it's not the right, whatever it is,

whether it's like a song thing or a picture or whatever.

But yeah, I don't know.

I feel like it's always kind of been for us

and it still feels that way.

Yeah. I think too,

it's like, yeah, she said,

I think it's kind of the core tenant

of our working relationship

is that we have so much faith in the other one that-

Yeah. If one of us

doesn't like it, we don't even push the other one.

We don't even go, No, it's good.

Yeah. Yeah.

We go, It must be wrong.

Yeah. Totally.

Find a new solution, you know?

Yeah.

But I think there was,

I think more so going into this record,

there obviously was a lot of pressure, you know,

that was put on from the industry, ourselves, the-

Because I think when you're like a kind of a hype band

or whatever,

people are looking for any opportunity

to shock you down, you know?

But I think in a way, you know,

yeah, the struggle was, you know,

and we've talked about it a bit in some interviews,

but we felt like we were in this kind of odd situation

because our EP was kind of treated like a debut record-

Yeah. In terms of

how it got reviewed.

We ended up touring on it.

Yeah. World for a year.

We played Primavera last year with just an EP out.

You know, it was like crazy.

No one expected that to come from just an EP.

So we had the problem of we have to make a debut record.

You know, and you have the pressure of that.

But it was also kind of like a sophomore-

Yeah. Record kind of.

So it was like,

well, how do we move it, you know?

But I think, you know, we're very proud of the record.

And I think now that we have a bit more,

as you said, a bit more foundation to stand on,

I actually feel as an artist that it's so freeing.

And something I've really been thinking about more recently

is, you know, going back to slow art.

Yeah. You know,

which is- Process.

I think just taking time on things, you know,

which I know is so not what anyone wants to do right now

'cause it's just pump, pump, pump,

get stuff out, pump, pump.

And sometimes you have deadlines,

you know, that you gotta hit.

But anytime I've done a remix

where it's like they only give you a week

or they only give you two weeks,

it's never as good as the ones

where I had five months even just to sit on it.

Yeah. You know,

and not listen to it for two months

and then return to it and-

Yeah. I was talking to Hubert

like two nights ago from Cassius

and he was like,

they would spend, you know, years on their albums.

I mean, that used to be the common place.

Bands would make an album and then go away.

Yeah. You know, make another.

I remember when I was a kid,

like last thing I'll say, but it was like Kasabian.

I don't know if you remember them.

Oh yeah. When I was a kid-

Clubfoot. Yeah, Clubfoot.

I loved that record.

That was my favorite record.

That, whatever that year in elementary school,

every single day I listened to it.

And I remember there was a show called Subterranean on VH1

that would just run music videos, like new music videos.

And I waited patiently for like two and a half years

for their next single, you know?

And they just went away, you know?

And I remember I waited.

And I remember when it came out.

Yeah. It was Empire.

And like the music video came out

and I was like, Oh my God, thank you. You know?

And now it's like expected that it's like, it's insane.

The era we're in.

It's like you put out Brat and now you have another album.

It's just like, it's crazy.

Feed the beast, you know?

[Jackson] Feed the beast. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

I'll end with a couple questions

and then we'll turn it over to the audience,

see if they have anything they wanna ask you.

What's the best advice

somebody who's been in this industry

for a long time has given you?

Recently, or just something you've sort of been like,

All right, I'm gonna squirrel that away. Remember that?

Yeah, go ahead.

I got one.

It actually was not from someone in the music industry.

Okay. Actually,

but it is probably the best advice I've ever received.

I remember it was kind of in the early days of us

when stuff started to move a little bit,

but a friend of mine, a friend of ours actually,

Rob Chan in New York,

who's like, I think he teaches at like FIT

or something in New York.

He's like fashion business.

He has one class.

And he told me, he said,

Don't focus on results. Focus on momentum.

And that was always something

that to this day, stuck with me.

And I remember in our early days,

that was like the credo that I always went by in my head.

And I just was trying to, I wasn't thinking big picture.

I just was thinking month-to-month how to keep it moving.

Like that month,

what were the little things that we could do

to just keep growth?

Yeah. You know?

And it wasn't this,

Hey, let's play Coachella and we need to get to online.

It was just smaller things,

momentum, momentum, momentum.

And if you focus on momentum, then I think results come.

Yeah.

You know?

That's good advice.

What about you, Shanny?

Yeah. I'm trying to think of like something

someone in the industry has said to me.

[Shanny laughing]

Kind of blanking right now.

But yeah, maybe I'll think on that for a second.

Well, there's a story that

it was a really funny story that like,

I think it was David Byrne told Kim Gordon

who told Katie Crutchfield of Waxahachee,

Just like after your first record, buy a house.

Just like you have enough money

because you never know what's gonna happen.

[Jackson] Yeah. Yeah. Just buy it.

And just like, and you always need a place,

you just need a place to live.

And I was, I'm like,

it's so, I like,

I love that like that got like passed down

to like a third generation of like rock,

of like indie rock people.

And I think that's like a, you know, if one has-

I don't think you can do that.

Yeah, I don't think you can do that.

They bought a house in like Kansas City.

Yeah.

I'm not hearing that.

I hear, the thing people always tell me

in the music industry

is they turn to me and they go,

You know, if it was the '90s,

you'd be able to afford a house

[Jeremy laughing]

with where you are now.

And I'm like, Yeah, I can barely pay my apartment rent.

You know?

So we got a couple minutes left.

Does anybody have any questions from the audience?

I cannot see.

So but if anybody wants to just sort of.

Yeah, okay. Right here. Boom.

[Audience Member] With like a genre mixing in an album.

I feel like the temptation is to like

put everything in there.

Are any ideas and songs like left on the floor?

Yeah.

There was some,

I remember towards that week we were going crazy

and we tried, I think like a Cumbia techno track.

And I remember Kenny turned

and he was like, I think this is, we found the line.

[Jeremy and Shanny laughing]

It does not work. Yeah.

Anybody else?

There's a microphone floating around, so.

Yes.

No, chillers.

[Jackson And Shanny] Chillers.

Chillers. No punishers, all chillers.

[Shanny laughing]

Let it breathe for two more seconds.

Right here.

Yes. I knew it would happen.

[Audience Member] Hi.

I just wanna hear more about New York

and what it's like playing there.

I moved away a long time ago.

And how does it feel?

Yeah.

I mean, I love New York.

I was born and raised there, so I don't know.

I'm super attached.

And I think like for us,

like the shows there are really fun

'cause they feel like our like hometown shows.

But yeah, I mean, I ride or die for New York, man.

I think too, you know, the thing that was so,

you know, awesome,

like in post-pandemic New York especially,

which is like talked about a little bit obviously

like the New York bands,

like you have The Dare, you have Chanel Beads,

you know, who are awesome.

Yeah. You have Frost Children.

You have all these groups

that kind of sprouted up in this post-pandemic,

you know, kind of thing.

But I think what doesn't get talked about enough

in that time was

it was such a local focus scene.

Yeah. You know,

no one in that scene was thinking about,

I wanna go play Europe,

or, I wanna go play whatever.

It was literally for the year

coming right out of the pandemic,

it was like everyone kind of trying to one-up each other

that was in the scene

and everyone was hanging at the same bars

and everyone was paying attention.

I mean, I remember the first time that I met Harrison,

The Dare,

I had a club night nearby.

He had his club night at Home Sweet Home

before Girls came out.

He was the resident at the club every Thursday.

No one would go, you know,

before that song came out.

He'll tell you.

But he was stoked.

He was the Thursday night guy there.

And then I had a Monday night party,

which is, you know, not great, at another club nearby.

But I remember you know, Girls came out

and that obviously was, you know,

if you were in New York, that was a watershed moment.

That was one of those moments, you know,

that it just truly, like,

I remember the day it came out

and it's just nothing felt the same.

Everything about it felt different.

It had punctured through this kind of bubbling hole.

But I remember I had never met him.

And the next two days later, he came to my club night.

And he came right up to me

'cause we knew who each other were.

Yeah. Yeah.

DJ guys.

And he was like, I finally

made it out to one of these club nights.

And I remember when he walked in,

I put on,

'cause it was a vinyl kind of club night I was doing,

and I put on Merrymaking at My Place,

Calvin Harris from the first album.

Because I thought

that's what he had been referencing with Girls.

And then of course he made this claim

that he had never heard it,

that, you know, whatever.

I call bullshit. I call total bullshit.

I was like, You've heard this record.

But even beyond that,

it was like, it was really this just like local melting pot.

And I even remember it was like,

we would throw a show in an empty swimming pool,

but then Chanel Beads threw a show

in an abandoned subway tunnel

like, you know, a month later.

And all of these bands were playing a lot, you know?

I mean, Harrison had his party every week.

It was weekly, you know?

Talk about momentum.

Yeah. Yeah.

And Chanel Beads was playing

probably once a month, you know, in the city.

And no one was touring

and no one had, to be honest,

like, really grander aspirations

because I think for so many years in New York,

there had just, like,

when I first moved there,

it was like, there was just this sense

that we had had 15 years of bands trying to be The Strokes.

Yeah. You know?

And nothing had really come to roost,

and labels didn't really care

about what was going on in New York.

Yeah. And all that stuff.

And then I think,

so the beautiful thing about the post-pandemic

is there was this, like, Well, who cares?

We're just doing this for us locally.

The labels don't care about what's going on here.

The, you know, whatever, so.

Well, and what's great about that too

is that, I mean,

what a lot of people forget about The Strokes

is that they also woodshedded

for, like, oh, they played so much.

Just like The Beatles in Hamburg, they got good as a band.

[Jackson] Yeah. You know?

They, like, they played Pianos.

They played Candy Shop.

They played all those Lower East Side places.

And then by the time, like, that first record,

New York City concert and whatever, like,

that first record came out,

they're just like, Oh, these guys can play.

[Jackson] Yeah. They're a good band.

I mean, it's the same thing with all those bands.

Is that like you go see Chanel Beads play

and it's like, yeah, these guys can play, you know?

[Jackson] Yeah. Like,

and that's what's so great about it

is that I think the idea of, like, woodshedding,

The idea of just being like,

Hey, we're here. We're working stuff out.

We're learning how to play together as a band.

We're learning what works. We're learning what doesn't.

We're getting everything so comfortable

that we can write better songs, you know?

And it's like, as soon as you-

And a lot of it is is economics, like-

[Jackson] Yeah. That can be hard to do.

A lot of it is just sort of rock clubs

turn into, like, DJ clubs

and, you know, everything New York is changing.

It's all about money,

and it's very difficult to do anything.

But if you have the opportunity

to be able to, like, play with your band at a local night

over and over and over again, you get better.

I think too, you know,

the pandemic kind of reinvented Manhattan in a way.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Because a lot of the finance guys,

and of course, there's still a ton that live there.

But a lot of the finance guys,

once the pandemic hit,

that were living in downtown Manhattan,

they went, Well, I have money.

Why would I stay in this, like, lame apartment

that I can't get out of now and I can't go party?

So I'm gonna go buy a house somewhere else and go move.

Yeah. And I think

that window though has closed again, unfortunately.

But for a period in the pandemic,

some younger kids and artists

started to move back in to downtown,

you know, which for a while,

downtown Manhattan kind of felt like,

Oh, why would you go out there?

It's in Brooklyn, or whatever.

And it kind of did kind of, you know, reinvigorate the city

in a great way.

And I think we got fortunate

with the fact also

that there was enough people to support the scene.

Yeah. Not just bands,

but there was like an appetite for,

you know, kids going out

and kind of like riding or dying for-

Yeah. These New York bands.

I know.

I mean, people ask me like,

like, Where's the best place to see a show in New York?

And there used to be, like,

a lot of answers, and now there's not a lot of answers.

Well, I mean, there's two, if you ever go,

There's TVI, which I think is an incredible space,

and then Nightclub 101, which is like the Billy Jones, RIP,

like, absolute New York legend

did so much to bring that back to Manhattan.

[Jackson] Gave us our first show.

You know, gave us our first show.

I worked at his record store

when we started to tour more and I got-

You worked at Billy-

[Jackson] I worked at Billy's record store.

I probably saw you in there.

If you were there with

'cause he had his other friend in there too.

[Jackson] Yeah, Jake. Jake, yeah.

From Voyeur, great band.

And then I forget her name.

Started working there towards the end.

But no, it was like when I got laid off from my bar job

because we were touring too much, you know,

but we were still making no money.

So I needed a job.

And I remember I went to him

'cause I had known him for years.

He gave us our first show, you know, legend.

And I was like, Billy, you gotta give me a job.

I was like, Just hire me at the record store.

I was like, You know, like, I'm like, I'm vinyl DJ guy.

[Jeremy laughing]

You know, like, Put me in, put me in.

And, but yeah, people like that,

that supported the scene

that I think are so quintessential to New York in a way

that do things because they're cool,

even if it's not gonna make money.

Yeah. Like he'd turn to me

in this record store and he'd go, This isn't about money.

He goes, We're not making any money.

He was like, We're losing money, actually.

He goes, But this is about my taste.

It's a building of my taste.

And then we'll do something else and we'll make money.

But this is...

He goes, I'm losing a ton of money.

I'm hemorrhaging money here.

Oh.

He would give me buku discounts

if I bought like a lot of records.

He had, I mean, the organization was,

he was giving stuff away half the time.

There was no organization.

Best job I ever had though.

Yeah. Honestly.

All right. Well, let's end there. We could-

Yeah. We could be like

a New York comedy sketch

and just talk about this stuff and list stuff here.

Thank you guys so much for coming.

Yeah. Really appreciate it.

You guys, for coming.

Thank you. Thanks guys.

Thank you guys.

Have a wonderful evening.

[Jackson] Thank you.