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I'm very new to higher mathematics. I find it interesting that the logarithm is left undefined for negative numbers. I trust that this means no definition is needed, unlike the square root of negative numbers, which resulted in the definition of "i".

Suppose that we wanted to define logarithm for negative numbers. Let "k" be a number whose only function is that, when "x" is raised to "k", the result is multiplied by "-1". So

2^k = -2
2^2k = -4
2^3k = -8
2^4k = -16
...

Then it would follow that

log(-2, b2) = k
log(-4, b2) = 2k
log(-8, b2) = 3k
log(-16, b2) = 4k
...

I recognize that this might no be useful (or someone would be using it already), but is this even reasonable? Or is there something about powers and logarithms that I don't understand that would make this not work?

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    $\begingroup$ If you have $x=i$ as a solution to $x^2=-1$ then you can also raise $x$ to a power to produce $-x,$ but the power is not a constant; it depends on $x.$ Specifically, $x^{i\pi\ln x} = -x.$ This is useful and it is used. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 12, 2023 at 14:47
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    $\begingroup$ Cf. complex logarithm $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 12, 2023 at 15:07
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    $\begingroup$ Your inspiration is good. This caught Don Knuth’s fancy as a youngster too, so you’re in good company. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 12, 2023 at 17:04
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    $\begingroup$ Well, there is already a convention for logarithms of negative numbers. They just do not teach you it in your class. wolframalpha.com/input?i=Log%5B-2%5D $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 12, 2023 at 18:54

1 Answer 1

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To fully understand logarithms of nonpositive numbers, you you need to be familiar with the exponential forms of complex numbers. Let $z = a+ib$ with $a,b \in \mathbf R$. Then, $e^{a+ib} = e^a e^{ib}$. $e^a$ is a real, nonnegative number, while $e^{ib}$ is equal to $\cos b + i\sin b$. In other words, to find $e^z$ on the complex plane, you take a point with abscissa $e^z$ on the real axis, and you rotate your plane by $b$ radians. You can get any point on the plane, except $0$ (do you see why?). For instance, $i = e^{0 + \frac \pi 2 i}$, because $i$ has a distance $1 = e^0$ of the origin, and is located at an angle $\pi/2$ radians from the real axis. The same way, $-1 = e^{\pi i}$.

This said, the logarithm of any complex number $Z$ (including real, negative numbers) should be a number $z$ such that $e^z = Z$. A first issue is that there is no uniqueness of such number. Indeed, rotating by $2\pi$ radians does not change anything. Hence, if $e^{a + bi} = Z$, then $e^{a + bi + 2\pi i} = Z$. So do $e^{a + bi + 2\ell\pi i}$, for every integer $\ell$: adding $2\ell \pi i$ is equivalent to doing $\ell$ rounds, i.e. changing nothing $\ell$ times. For instance, $-1 = e^{\pi i} = e^{-\pi i} = e^{3\pi i}$. Should the logarithm of $-1$ be equal to $\pi i$, $-\pi i$ or $3\pi i$?

There is no good answer. In fact, you can choose which answer you want. In other words, you can choose a logarithm function $\mathbf C^* \longrightarrow \mathbf C$, which gives you a possible logarithm for every nonzero number of $\mathbf C$. But you have to choose in which interval of length $2\pi$ you want to choose the ordinates. A very common choice is to take the ordinates in the interval $(-\pi, \pi]$. With this convention, you can write that $\ln(-1) = 0 + \pi i$, $\ln(-2) = \ln(2) + \pi i$, etc.

But this is a pure convention. Furthermore, this leads to some continuity issues: indeed, $\ln(-1) = \pi i$, but if $\varepsilon > 0$ is very close to zero, then $\ln(-1 - \varepsilon i)$ is very close to $-\pi i$. In other words, the logarithm function “jumps” every time you cross the half-line of negative real numbers.


Now, let’s focus on your proposal. Say $k$ is such that $2^k = -2$. This can be rewritten: $(e^{\ln 2})^k = e^{i \pi}e^{\ln 2}$. Hence, $e^{k \ln 2} = e^{\ln 2 + i\pi}$.

But from what I previously said about $e^{a + bi}$ being a point at distance $e^a$ rotated by $b$ radians, we can infer the following equivalence: for every complex numbers $w$ and $z$, we have $$e^w = e^z \iff \exists \ell \in \mathbf Z : z = w+ 2\ell \pi i$$

So with the $k$ you defined, one must have: $$k \ln 2 = \ln 2 + \pi i + 2\ell \pi i, \quad \ell \in \mathbf Z$$ $$k = 1 + \frac{\pi + 2\ell \pi}{\ln 2} i, \quad \ell \in \mathbf Z$$

Now, assume we also have: $3^k = -3$. The same computations ensure that: $$k \ln 3 = \ln 3 + \pi i + 2\ell' \pi i, \quad \ell' \in \mathbf Z$$ $$k = 1 + \frac{\pi + 2\ell' \pi}{\ln 3} i, \quad \ell' \in \mathbf Z$$

So there would exist integers $\ell$ and $\ell'$ such that $$k = 1 + \frac{\pi + 2\ell \pi}{\ln 2} i = 1 + \frac{\pi + 2\ell' \pi}{\ln 3} i$$

In particular, taking the imaginary part, this leads to: $$\frac{\pi + 2\ell \pi}{\ln 2} = \frac{\pi + 2\ell' \pi}{\ln 3}$$ Divide by $\pi$: $$\frac{1 + 2\ell}{\ln 2} = \frac{1 + 2\ell'}{\ln 3}$$

This said: $$(1+2\ell) \ln 3 = (1+2\ell') \ln 2$$

Now taking the exponential: $$3^{1 + 2\ell} = 2^{1+2\ell'}$$

This is clearly impossible, since there exists no number which is a power of $2$ and $3$ at the same time (except $1$).

Maybe there exists easier ways to generate contradictions, but this one is enough to prove that there could not exist a number $k$ such that $x^k = -x$ for all real $x$.

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    $\begingroup$ Wow, thanks for the explanation, and for taking my question seriously! I'm a bit behind on understanding the details, but I follow the idea pretty well. Part of me is sad that math must get so messy when you get deeper, but it's also pretty beautiful at the same time. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 18, 2023 at 13:28
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    $\begingroup$ You’re welcome, I am glad this answer helped you! Enjoy your next years of mathematical class. ;-) $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 19, 2023 at 14:08

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