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Update February 26th,2026

As was mentioned on February 20th, we have another post covering more of our thinking and plans on how we are going about improving question closure.


Update February 24th, 2026

The new Stack Overflow beta experience is now available. Users can visit the beta site directly at https://beta.stackoverflow.com/ or by clicking the "Try new site (beta)" toggle on stackoverflow.com.

We are currently in the process of rolling out and troubleshooting certain issues with the beta. Additionally, we wanted to proactively communicate the features not yet accessible on https://beta.stackoverflow.com/. As we continue to make updates to the beta site, please use the classic site to access these features:

  • Viewing comments on a question, or adding a comment on a question
  • Editing posts
  • General purpose moderation tooling
  • Changing your vote on a post (except for the default Troubleshooting / Debugging type questions)
  • Viewing most post notices
  • Real time notifications without reloading the page (updates on a post, inbox notifications, etc.)
  • Changing the list of one's Communities in left navigation menu
  • Certain actions on a post like Follow, Save, Start a bounty, etc.
  • Staging Ground

Update February 20th, 2026

We’d like to clarify the announcement that review queues and question closure will not be going away for the time being. We do believe that curation is important. It has been central to what makes Stack Overflow valuable. Removing all review queues or curation altogether is not the direction we currently plan to go. We also want to have more flexibility in the content we allow and make our experience more welcoming. We do believe that there's room for improvement on how site curation is implemented and plan to work more collaboratively with the community on the best way forward. You can expect to hear more from us by February 26th, 2026 to learn more.

As we roll out the beta, we'll continue to add in features. The review queues and question closure will not be a part of the initial release, but will be included in the scope of the overall redesign and will be incorporated as the beta graduates to general availability.


Last July, we announced a redesign of Stack Overflow. In October, we shared a first look into the upcoming design changes and our reasoning behind them. After several rounds of discussion with the community, we’re happy to announce that the first stage of our redesign will soon be ready for you to try out.

Starting next week, head to beta.stackoverflow.com and try the first stage of the redesigned experience! We welcome your thoughts as we shift over to our new design and brand image. Details follow.


Three upcoming major milestones for the Stack Overflow redesign

The team has worked hard to bring you a new design for Stack Overflow, and we’re proud and excited to be able to share it with you soon.

We are breaking the release of the new design into three major milestones:

  1. Soft beta launch: Users will be able to try the site, but not all parts of the site will be built yet. We will continue to make updates, fix issues, and release updates and features on a rolling basis. During this phase, users will be able to switch between the beta site and the “classic” site experience. We’ll be here soon.
  2. Full beta launch: All major features of the platform that are on our roadmap will be implemented and converted over to the new design. Shortly after the full beta launch, we will begin automatically redirecting some users to the new design as we prepare to transition fully onto the new design. We’re targeting this release for around the end of March.
  3. Full release: Stack Overflow will switch fully onto the new design, which will be accessed directly on stackoverflow.com. After a full release, the “classic” site design will be decommissioned. A date for this phase has not yet been decided.

As for when network sites might see the new design, it’s far too early to speculate. We expect that work leading up to a release on Stack Overflow alone, as well as the work that will come after, will keep our arms full for a while to come. Network sites will probably see certain rebranding elements, such as a change in the Stack Overflow logo, in the coming weeks. Aside from these minor updates, however, we don’t expect to update the network this year. You’ll hear more from us once we’re ready to begin work on a network-wide rollout.

What should users expect during the soft beta launch?

During the early period of the beta test, the new Stack Overflow design is still being built. At the time of this release, only the homepage and question pages will be using the new design. We will be actively working to convert more pages over to the new design during the beta. We want to leverage this time for constructive feedback from the community while we are still on this new path.

Most pages that have not yet been converted to the new design will still be accessible through beta.stackoverflow.com; however, they will be using some of the base styles of the new design system. That means some pages may not work exactly as expected until they have been converted to the new design. This is normal and expected at this point in the process.

You will also notice that not all of the tools currently available to users on Stack Overflow have been implemented in the new design. (This includes moderator workflows – mods, please continue to use the main site for now.) We expect some of these tools to be built before full release. However, please note that we plan to retire certain curation workflows, such as close votes and most review queues, in the new design. Additionally, certain post states, such as posts with bounties, community wiki posts, or locked post states, do not yet have a way of being displayed in the new design. During the initial beta phase, posts with these states will be styled the same way as normal posts.

Finally, before full beta release towards the end of March, we expect that questions in the new beta experience will be displayed in a format more similar to that of opinion-based content because we believe it expands how people engage with Stack Overflow and how content is created and shared. We are seeing positive engagement with this format, and we want to continue to evolve it to include accepted answers.

How to provide feedback on the Stack Overflow beta

We are open to all feedback on the new design for Stack Overflow and hope to hear from you soon. You are welcome to provide feedback here on Meta Stack Overflow. There will also be a link in the left sidebar, which says “Help improve beta,” that you may use to submit bug reports, feature requests, and general feedback to the company. Look for this button once you have access to the beta:

Screenshot of the left sidebar menu with a button that is highlighted in a box that says "Help improve beta"

For bug reports and feature requests, please be aware that only the homepage and individual question pages are currently using the new design. Bug reports and feature requests concerning these two pages are our highest priority during the early release. We expect issues with the new design on pages that haven’t been fully implemented yet. That said, if you notice any serious issues on any page, we always encourage you to provide those reports as well.

When submitting bug reports and feature requests on Meta Stack Overflow, please ask a new question and tag it with . Please don’t use answers on this post to report bugs or request feature changes. We do not have a way to track our responses to reports in answers over the long term - we’re definitely going to want the ability to do that for this project. Asking a new question and tagging it appropriately helps us categorize questions and quickly respond to issues you raise. (If you forget, we’ll still try to keep an eye out, but a little help from you will make sure these issues don’t fall through the cracks.)

Discussion and general feedback is always welcome and belongs in answers on this post, in new questions, or using the feedback link on beta.stackoverflow.com mentioned above.

We know it can take time to adjust to design changes, especially when the site is so integral to many people’s workflows. Everyone has a chance to try it out now so we can put the most important work in over the next two months. We want to make sure that the classic version of Stack Overflow is still available to use until we’re ready to move over to the new format. We look forward to your feedback soon!

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    I’m upvoting because I like the principle of a beta launch and gathering feedback. But do I believe our feedback would make a difference? Let's just say that I’ve seen this movie before and I hate the ending. Commented Feb 18 at 16:28
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    Please stop asking for feedback. It will be ignored this time too. We do not want to give feedback. I had it with that ten feedback posts ago. Commented Feb 18 at 16:31
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    "please note that we plan to retire certain curation workflows, such as close votes and most review queues, in the new design" way to bury the lede... Commented Feb 18 at 16:31
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    Is there a discussion post about the new curation user experience, given the apparently planned removal of some of our most effective tools and workflows? Commented Feb 18 at 16:38
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    It's telling to casually hide a statement such as "we plan to retire certain curation workflows, such as close votes and most review queues" in a post about site design. Commented Feb 18 at 17:12
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    Well sure, in the traditional sense of "closing." But closing is our primary curation technique. Are we simply abandoning curation? Commented Feb 18 at 17:30
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    The last time you asked for feedback you (SOCorp) only responded to 3 out of 11 responses, given theres already 2 answers here it seems as though you've almost reached your feedback quota Commented Feb 18 at 17:56
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    Is there a point to this post? It's pretty clear you, as the company, will ignore all the feedback and do whatever you want anyway. Just like you've done repeatedly for the last few years. Do you not realize that it's your constant changes to SO making things worse that is driving away users? Complete cluelessness from the company. Commented Feb 18 at 20:13
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    @Hoid there is an appearance, that you are attempting to hide, what is one of the biggest changes in the history of the site as a 'design change'. If this is the place for feedback on the decision on curating workflows, that should be front and center. And expect to hit a new record for downvotes if it is. Commented Feb 18 at 22:56
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    @Hoid "Not to dismiss it, this is the time, place, and opportunity for discussion." This is a bit late considering you already have a roadmap and significant work to actually build that thing, isn't it? You're talking roughly one month here until you already have a full, alternative site live. How much of it is actually up for discussion, not just commenting? Commented Feb 18 at 22:59
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    @Hoid once again, you came to us asking for feedback when you have a plan, i.e. we plan to retire certain curation workflows. We gave you feedback regarding experiment with open-ended questions with more than 250 downvotes; what did you do with it? You are expanding it to the whole site. Fool me once, ... Commented Feb 18 at 23:43
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    @Hoid, I'm going to be polite and say this is a controversial proposal. If you want to get any feedback that is useful, and not leave both sides feeling ignored and frustrated, can you please clarify what has already been decided, and what can change based on feedback? Commented Feb 19 at 0:08
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    @Hoid: I think it would be really useful if you could explain why the crucial aspect of removing closure and various review queues has so little prominence in this post. Did you truly believe it was relatively unimportant, or were you trying to avoid attracting attention to it? Do you understand why this reduces the community's trust in the company? Commented Feb 19 at 9:17
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    The latest edit does not imbue confidence. Feels like when in Hitchhiker's Guide the Galactic Planning Council announced the scheduled demolition of Earth: "The process will take slightly less than two of your Earth minutes. Thank you." And then followed that up with, "don't panic, we are happy to take community feedback over the next two minutes." Commented Feb 21 at 8:53
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    I'd like to pile on my displeasure at the continuation of the company thinking / saying that traditional Q&A is just debugging questions. it's not. we've said this before, ex. here, and here, and I said this during a call with the product manager / designer of the opinion-based content experiment (having been invited- by you, hoid!, IIRC- to provide direct feedback). I'm quite frustrated at this point. it's as if I haven't been heard at all. and this is something pretty fundamental. Commented Feb 24 at 18:20

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As others have expressed, this fills me with dread:

However, please note that we plan to retire certain curation workflows, such as close votes and most review queues, in the new design.

(Also as others have expressed, burying this fundamental aspect of how the site works half way through a post that claims to be about "new site design" - with an implication that it's mostly cosmetic - feels like you know it's going to be unpopular, and were trying to hide it.)

I can see one of two ways this will go:

  • The site becomes garbage. Finding good questions becomes near impossible because there are so many posts that are either off-topic or so poorly written that they add no value.
  • The community expresses its view of posts which would have previously been closed in another way - probably downvotes. This is much more harmful, both in terms of being confrontational instead of collaborative, and also losing the value of "closed as duplicate" posts which allow multiple representations of the same basic question to lead to a single place for good answers.

My guess is that it'll be a mixture of the two - and given the company's current track record, I can imagine that the next step to prevent the second outcome would be to remove downvotes, making the first outcome even more severe.

Currently, this is on my profile:

Jon's profile visiting record: 6110 days, 5740 consecutive

So I've visited every day for over 15 years. Whether I'm on holiday, travelling etc - I've still made a point of visiting, commenting, answering (less often over time, but not for lack of wanting to answer) etc.

If this change happens as described, I strongly suspect that by the end of 2026, I won't be visiting every day.

The opinion of the meta community at least is really clear here. Please, please change course.

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    I mean, the opinion experiment has downvotes that as far as I know, essentially don't do or mean anything. so, it's already happened :/ Commented Feb 19 at 9:02
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    @starball Every misguided experiment during the past 2 years was massively down-voted and every corresponding feedback thread was ignored. This one will not be any different. It is time to pack up and leave. Commented Feb 19 at 10:11
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    "I can see one of two ways this will go" The third most likely way: the remaining 10% of the user base from the peak years around 2015 will simply leave - sooner rather than later - leaving behind a completely inactive site used by none. Commented Feb 19 at 10:22
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    in terms of being confrontational instead of collaborative — close votes aren’t perceived as less confrontational than downvotes, but you still have a point: the other way to express feedback on a post is commenting (now “replying”). As a mod, I don’t have positive vibes about this. If the main channel to express frustration and dissatisfaction with a post is replying, there will be much more nasty work for moderators, and overall more chances to reduce the signal-to-noise ratio. Commented Feb 19 at 17:17
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    @blackgreen: I think they're not perceived that way by at least some posters - but I hope that other posters do accept it, and certainly it's the way I perceive it as a voter. And yes, completely agree that this could end up being horrible for mods. Commented Feb 19 at 17:37
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    More questions posted in itself is not a good thing. Having your question unanswered or somebody giving a completely off-base suggestion that sends you in a wild goose chase is far worse. SO Inc seems to assume that the experts will always be here to give quality answers but I'm not as optimistic. When the experts leave the site, SO will be truly be dead, no matter how many new questions and comments it gets every hour. Commented Feb 19 at 19:19
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    Ah, but new experts will rise up and embrace the new, friendly Stack Overflow that they have always wanted. And maybe rediscover the same things the bitter, hateful old guard found. Maybe future SO will find a better balance and make curation seem less brutal to the uninformed. Maybe it will become better at informing the new-or-infrequent user so there is less hurt caused by misunderstanding. Or maybe it will become word salad that truly needs AI, not the LLM poseurs we have today, to navigate and derive any useful knowledge from. Commented Feb 19 at 20:32
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    to clarify my above comment, i’m referring to the “down thumb” vote that one can cast on posts in the “opinion-based content” category- not to votes cast on any meta posts announcing that experiment Commented Feb 19 at 21:12
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    If downvotes are gone along with close votes we kinda need to know what happens with the downthumb. If it's completely meaningless, zero curation and the site turns into mud. If the server uses downthumbs in the background somewhere to manage habitually bad posters, you're going to have nasty blow-outs when people get "managed" with even less feedback than a user currently gets. Commented Feb 19 at 22:10
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    A lot of closeable questions already get CV+DVs, so the problems of DVs on questions that might be salveagable can already be observed today. (I still think removing DVs, unless replaced with something that has most of their benefits, would be catastrophic.) Commented Feb 20 at 2:56
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    The lack of staff's comments on this answer is concerning. Not that I am surprised per se, but after a week, I would have expected someone to have interacted with Jon, even if it was only to acknowledge his message. Commented Feb 25 at 13:55
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    @Laf: I won't go into details (yet), but there has been the start of an interaction outside this post. Commented Feb 25 at 14:14
  • By the looks of it hefty insights into planning and design must occur in order to prevent this site from going into a BSOD (Beta Screen of Disappointment) Commented Feb 25 at 14:37
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    @JonSkeet This is good news then, thanks for letting us know! Commented Feb 25 at 14:45
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    The new design is missing colors and wasting my screen space with large fonts. I'm sorely disappointed about pretty much everything that was "improved" here in the last few years. I used to be quite active on SO but now I no longer feel any motivation for that. I think I'm leaving the sinking ship. Commented yesterday
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please note that we plan to retire certain curation workflows, such as close votes and most review queues, in the new design

Hoid, I think this needs to be expanded upon. I went through the publicly linked posts and do not see this specific change mentioned in either of them.

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    I'm sure they brought this up in their "several rounds of discussion with the community" :p Commented Feb 18 at 16:52
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    Given how keen SO is on selling the site content to AI companies, shouldn't they be interested to maintain a certain level of quality? Commented Feb 18 at 17:00
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    @samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz Not if quality gets in the way of quantity. Commented Feb 18 at 17:01
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    @cigien The "several rounds of discussions" was related to the redesign. And only the redesign. There were no proposed changes to any of the functionality at the time. The most major "functionality change" was that the inline ads were leaked before they were announced. You can find the posts starting here: A First Look: Stack Overflow Redesign - and the other parts are linked at the bottom. Commented Feb 18 at 17:03
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    @VLAZ FWIW, this discussion happened, though i suspect it was less of a thought experiment than claimed. Commented Feb 18 at 17:07
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    @user400654 It was a thought experiment. When the suggestion was made, the discussion of removing question closure had not been seriously considered internally. It was the responses to that proposal, along with several other MSO posts from community members that followed, that gave it room to breathe. Commented Feb 18 at 17:36
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    As noted by VLAZ's comments, there has been no discussion on functionality changes around the redesign. Commented Feb 18 at 17:37
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    Seems par for the course. Yea let’s take this negatively viewed idea and take it further. Twist that dagger, so isn’t dead enough yet. Commented Feb 18 at 17:56
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    @Hoid "As noted by VLAZ's comments, there has been no discussion on functionality changes around the redesign." I don't see how you can say that when your announcement above says "please note that we plan to retire certain curation workflows, such as close votes and most review queues, in the new design". Which is it? Will the functionality be the same or will it not? Commented Feb 18 at 19:01
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    @TylerH both can be true. The company will remove curation and there has been no discussion with the community about it. Commented Feb 18 at 19:07
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    @cafce25 I took the reference to 'discussion' to mean 'the announcement above does not discuss it, nor has the company anywhere else', not to mean the community hasn't discussed it. A great example of why it's important for Hoid to respond and clarify. Commented Feb 18 at 19:20
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    @TylerH My understanding of VLAZ's comment was that he was referring to Andy's answer, which I affirmed, that there was a lack of discussion of these functionality changes coming from the company. While the Modernizing Curation post seems related, it was proposed in isolation, and decision-making around the noted changes didn't happen until well after it was posted. So functionality will not be the same. Commented Feb 18 at 19:29
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    Suddenly, I'm reminded of this Meta.SE post... The CEO says we "have now changed" our reputation for over-zealous moderation. What actually changed? (referring to an article on July 2025) Commented Feb 19 at 5:33
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    Maybe they want to cook the metrics: More questions, more answers. Plus they think that it's not "welcoming" to close questions (or maybe even to edit them). Commented Feb 20 at 21:56
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    “Removing all review queues or curation altogether is not the direction we currently plan to go.” I don’t believe you,if that was the case, you wouldn’t have made a point of saying user curation would not exist (or would not be working on the beta website). Every action in the last 12 months makes it clear, Stack Exchange as a company does not appreciate user curation, and as a company have no plans to provide the community the tools to moderate the community. Case in point after 6 months of questions seeking opinions, the community still cannot moderate, the lowest quality of that content Commented Feb 20 at 23:46
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We know it can take time to adjust to design changes, especially when the site is so integral to many people’s workflows.

Calling this a design change is a severe understatement... I don't have the proper words for it... This is not a design change. This is the complete destruction of the Stack Overflow core feature: dedicated answers. This is like burning down the library of Alexandria.

For the last few years you (the company) have been shooting yourself in the foot. Now you are aiming for the head. If you don't reverse course the site is as good as dead.


The experiment with opinion based questions gave you a pretty good idea about what you shouldn't do. We gave you plenty of feedback. We explained with arguments that threaded replies are not good format for a knowledge base. But you didn't listen. And here we are.

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    Do you think you could continue as a mod if this went through? Commented Feb 18 at 23:06
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    @user1937198 If the core SO mission and format is lost, there is no point in being a mod here. Commented Feb 19 at 7:18
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    @Richard The strike has to be widened not just to moderation but to regular Q&A as well. Everyone simply needs to boycott the entire site. This proposal here is just one of several incredibly incompetently rolled out changes, the disguised ads is similarly horrible. Instead of everyone silently leaving the dying site which will apparently happen 5 days from now and watch the site slowly die, we can let it go out with a bang. Commented Feb 19 at 7:47
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    @Lundin At some point we concluded that there will be no other strike. I doubt that strike will be on the table. No dedicated answers, no proper Q/A format, no duplicate closures, no curation... remove that and there is nothing left. Up until now we have been running on hope that some things will improve and that we can keep the lights on simply by being here and caring, preventing as much damage as possible. Commented Feb 19 at 8:00
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    @DalijaPrasnikar I agree that the most likely outcome is that everyone will just leave, permanently... in 5 days from now apparently. Commented Feb 19 at 8:44
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    @Lundin I expect people will stick around as long as the old curation mechanics do. Commented Feb 19 at 10:04
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    @AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні I probably won't, I've had it. This enshittification process has been going on for far too long, all the way since back in 2019. And there's no end to it. Commented Feb 19 at 10:09
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    @Lundin I will stick around a bit more to see whether we can actually turn the ship around, but I am not holding my hopes high. Commented Feb 19 at 10:12
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    @Lundin I get your point. As a mod, I feel more obligations toward the users that decide to stick around a bit longer. Prematurely abandoning the ship would mean abandoning those users, too. But when the ship goes under water completely and there is no ship anymore, then I will leave, too. Moderators can always take a leave of absence and do nothing for a while. Commented Feb 19 at 10:22
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    @DalijaPrasnikar Every single elected Diamond mod have already done far more than any ordinary user could reasonably expect. I mean, didn't you already suffer moderating the whole Discussion experiment? Or the mods that tried to salvage the lobby chats. Where's your paycheck from doing that. Commented Feb 19 at 10:26
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    @Lundin Some mods who have been here for much longer probably didn't expect this kind of chaos. On the other hand, I did and I only nominated then because I cannot see everything going to hell without doing everything I possibly can. So even though there is very little hope now, there is still some hope left. Commented Feb 19 at 10:59
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    Speaking of the library of Alexandria... is StackOverflow fully archived on archive.org? I mean, maybe not searchable, but salvageable? Commented Feb 20 at 21:57
  • @Lundin A strike doesn’t work if they don’t want us to improve the site in the first place. Commented Feb 22 at 15:20
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    @DalijaPrasnikar: Not that I'm accusing anyone, but collectively we should start thinking about these things more seriously, since the end may be near T_T ... and let's hope I'm proving wrong. Commented Feb 22 at 16:57
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    @DalijaPrasnikar Someone has been reuploading them to archive.org, so all the new data dumps are still on archive.org. 2025-12-31 has 19 torrent seeds as well, so the newer data dumps are probably better archived than before they screwed over the community (which, to be fair, is not much of a surprise; a lot of archival is reactive when a problem becomes apparent) Commented Feb 22 at 17:48
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This is not a new design, it's a complete replacement of Stack Overflow (and I assume the rest of the network afterwards) with a new not-quite-Q&A site.

I'd even agree that with the decline in activity a more radical change might be needed to avert the network becoming irrelevant and financially unsustainable. But I have absolutely no confidence that the company will manage this kind of change. This announcement is a good example, you're burying the biggest change the network has ever seen in a single sentence. You're going into full confrontation with the existing community instead of trying to convince people why changes like this are needed.

The current experiments around new formats are a disaster. They're a half-broken mess of poorly thought-out and incoherent changes. And then you abandoned these experiments, likely because you're trying to finish your new Stack Overflow replacement site. I have no idea what you think you learned from those experiments, but I fear you'll take the wrong lessons from them and finally kill the network for good.

The current network is too rigid and too stuck in it's ways. But you don't fix that by just removing all content curation. You fix that by convincing the community that they went overboard with the application of some rules.

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    "a new not-quite-Q&A site" I call it "We have Reddit at home". Commented Feb 18 at 20:10
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    Skeptics is going finally become the conspiracy theory site that the initial design suggested :-) Commented Feb 20 at 19:21
  • Suspicious about what exactly 'curation' does mean in their concept. Commented Feb 21 at 13:48
  • "The current network is too rigid and too stuck in its ways". What in particular makes you say that? Commented Feb 23 at 14:01
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Between this post and No, I do not believe this is the end it’s now clear that:

  • the “community” you talk about is not this community. It’s another community that exists in Community Management Land. In my book, a community is a cohesive group of members who work toward a common goal. The only thing site users at large (the community that you’d like to will into existence) have in common is that they sometimes navigate to stackoverflow.com.
  • you believe the high-quality repository of Q&A format is no longer a viable business and you are actively working to replace it. Redditification has begun. In this sense, yes, the (actual) community of curators and moderators that has stewarded the site’s original mission is no longer needed, nor are the tools they use the most.

I’m also glad that everybody can now see No, I do not believe this is the end for what it really is.

I do not trust that you have a long term vision for the site. I think you’re going nuclear because you don’t know what else to do. If you remove curation, Stack Overflow will no longer be Stack Overflow. It’ll be something else. I don’t know how it’ll fare, but I know it won’t be unique any more.

We are open to all feedback on the new design for Stack Overflow and hope to hear from you soon. You are welcome to provide feedback here on Meta Stack Overflow.

The only feedback you want to get is about GUI bugs. Do your own testing.

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There's a couple of points I want to talk about here. I realise that I'm hyper focused, but they are my greatest concerns

please note that we plan to retire certain curation workflows, such as close votes and most review queues, in the new design

Closure should not be going, it isn't a bad thing; especially the migration and duplicate features. Honestly, one of my biggest frustrations when searching for a problem that was well answered in the early years of the site is that there are 10's of the same question that come back in my search results, and they all have the same and different answers. I have to end up reading 3-5 (sometimes more) questions to work out what is the best for me. For recent content the close as duplicate feature removes that entirely; I'm directed to the "canonical" duplicate and there exists the vast majority of good answers.

Closure is important for bad questions as well; it's frustrating as an answerer to post an answer to then find out the question was entirely unclear and the ball game has changed. That can happen when the question looks ok; for questions that don't answers these questions shouldn't be entertained; this is how we end up with bad answers to bad questions and these aren't useful to anyone.

Migration too, greatly helps. Yes, there is overlap and there always will be, but migrating a post to a site where you're going to get the real SMEs more focused on the question the author is asking. If we are getting rid of closure, then migration needs to be opened to users for all sites, not just 5. We can, and do, get questions for other sites and they now need to be able to be migrated.

Also, for questions that have no home within the network, what does Stack Inc expect now? I can see users using the RA/Spam flags for such content, and I can agree with them; a question about what type of frying pan to use when making bolognese doesn't behind on Stack, but now users will have no options but to flag. If I were moderating at the time, I would agree with them and binding vote it.

Though I appreciate that Stack Overflow is concerned about closure rates, I do want to point out something; deletion rates. These rates have gone up over the years, however, the rate of increase isn't the insane spike we have seen lately. Way back in 2015 the rate was at about 30%, and over the next decade it managed to hit almost 50% in 2024. In 2025 that rate did initially drop, but it is now fluctuating at around 50% again. This is important as although many questions (and a percentage, see here for numbers) weren't getting closed the path to deletion hasn't changed anywhere near as drastically. This means that many of the questions that were deleted, but weren't closed, likely should have been closed, but the volume of content we had back then didn't make closure of those posts possible; there was too much. With the lower volume, the percentage of answers being closed is higher, yes, because the community is able to review a higher percentage of the content posted.

we expect that questions in the new beta experience will be displayed in a format more similar to that of opinion-based content because it we believe it expands how people engage with Stack Overflow and how content is created and shared.

Threaded conversations does not help with getting answers. As a consumer of answers on Stack Overflow, one of the best things about it is how prominent answers are; they are completely distinct from other content on the post (comments). This means finding the answers easy, and reading them even easier. If something is important to the answer, then also editing into the answer is paramount because that is where it should be. Threaded conversation actively work against this. I hate that when I do have to read a certain website with threaded replies, that I have to scroll through replies asking for clarification, replies of discussion, and other non-answer content, to get to an answer to find out that the answer was changed 4 more threaded replies later based off feedback 3 threaded answers in. ARGH!

Answers do not need a conversation to precede or succeed it; answers are your currency, your north star, your steel thread, your shining light. Taking answers away is (replacing comments and answers with replies is removing answers), with all due respect, is like removing the wheels from a car and wondering why people can't use it any more. It fundamentally breaks the site.

Although, I admit, many have reacted the open-ended content poorly, I do think that this part of the site has legs, and actually should be what you are focusing on. I've heard, from Staff, the work "Broken" be used to refer to the Stack Overflow, and that something with it is broken; I agree, but it's not the entire site. I can say, however, that open-ended content is broken, and that is what you are basing the entire beta version of the site on. Rather than focus on changing the entire site, focus on fixing the feature you introduced and abandoned; better tooling, better question types, better curation. Some of these open-ended psots really aren't suitable for the site, and would be better on a different one in the network, but they don't allow for open-ended questions. Why not? Stack Overflow isn't a Stack Exchange site anymore at the moment; so many features don't exist on other sites, and many of the ones we have (from experiments) are broken. So can't a open-ended question about Linux be asked on Unix.se? There's only one reason; you (Stack Inc) haven't provided a way for your users to do so.

Please, don't push open-ended threaded conversations on to the currency of Stack Overflow, and Stack Exchange; answers being king. This turns the sites into a very well known threaded website, and I'll be honest, if that was the type of site I wanted to contribute to, and moderate, I would do; I don't because that's not the type of site I want to participate in. Stack Overflow's goal of being a repository of knowledge is the site I want to contribute to. Such a complete reinvention of the site, to effectively copy the workflow of a very well known social media site, could (and I admittedly think will) be the death knell for the site, not the reinvigoration Stack Inc wants. Old content will remain, but I am confident in saying that the new content will not be the quality that people expect/need.

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    Or, to paraphrase: People come to SO because they want Stack Overflow, not because they want Reddit. If people want Reddit, they'll go to Reddit. Merely aping Reddit and removing the things that make SO a distinct site with its own identity will be harmful, not helpful; if people have to choose between Reddit or the Reddit knockoff coasting on the value of its name, then they'll just choose Reddit. Stack Overflow will lose market space, not gain it. Commented Feb 18 at 20:48
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    Just to clarify a few things that I can speak to. Questions that are still off-topic on the site can be marked as off-topic. That option will be included as a reporting feature. But it's important to note that its end state is being deleted, not closed. Questions about bolognese will remain off-topic. Site scope is largely unchanged here, except for cases where the opinion content now expressly allows them. As mentioned in the post, though, any changes beyond the logo coming to the rest of SE are, to my knowledge, quite a ways off. Commented Feb 18 at 22:34
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    Also, I understand the point about threaded replies. While I think your opinion is valid here, we are still settling on solutions to mitigate this by using accepted answers to change how the content is visually presented, so there is a clear Q&A pair. This would also include expanding the ability for certain users to change a question's accepted answer, and possibly add multiple accepted answers down the road. This is, however, still being discussed. Commented Feb 18 at 22:40
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    "Questions about bolognese will remain off-topic." But "My code isn't working, help me?" (and that's all she wrote) will be an "acceptable" question in the future because it's in scope of what Stack Overflow is about, @Hoid ? Why should that question not be closed until it's been improved? No answers are going to be useful there. Commented Feb 18 at 22:46
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    Let's be realistic here. People aren't concerned about the closure changes because of bolognese. Commented Feb 18 at 22:48
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    Worth taking a page from Wikipedia here. A visitor lands at a Wikipedia article and they get the content they want to see. They get the information. Hidden behind the scenes is the discussion that took place to produce and curate that article. The discussion exists, but it stays in its place behind the information. If you obscure the information you make the site harder, not easier, to use. Commented Feb 18 at 22:48
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    Also, duplicates are a problem too (are we going to allow reposts?). Commented Feb 18 at 23:20
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    @Hoid the accepted answer is not always the best answer (or even a working answer) so a question answer 'pair' is a pipe dream. As a test you should have made this announcement in the new threaded form and watched the comment mire drown us all. Commented Feb 18 at 23:27
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    I absolutely hate threaded conversations, if I am having a conversation within a question, there is a serious issue with the question and I’ll prob immediately downvote the question Commented Feb 18 at 23:38
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    @Hoid "But it's important to note that its end state is being deleted, not closed" The continued display by staff of ignorance or straight lack of knowledge about your product is really concerning. The end state of off-topic questions on current Stack Overflow right now is deleted, not closed. Commented Feb 19 at 21:27
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    A 50% deletion rate is not insane in and of itself. It depends on what kind of questions get deleted. Maybe there are a lot of questions obviously asked by bots, or one-liners, or whatever? I am a bit worried if a lot of duplicates get deleted rather than just closed, because it is often easier to find one of the dupes than the original questions. Commented Feb 20 at 22:22
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    I've written this before and I'll no doubt write it again even in a post-curation world: For the established languages it's hard for a beginner to ask a good, original question. First they usually don't know what they want due to inexperience. They just have a crash or compiler error or output error that they can't understand and thus cannot explain. The experience necessary to dig down and isolate a problem just hasn't been developed yet. And if they do the work and manage to produce a good question, odds are very high it was asked and answered sometime before 2010 and has a good cannonical. Commented Feb 21 at 0:08
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    A conversation and a post are apples and oranges. You don't have the direct face-to-face feedback. If you're talking to someone, as soon as you start skipping important information or head down a bad path anyone who actually cares will stop you and help you correct. On SO you write the question and you post it. If you're wandering into the weeds someone will likely help you get on a better path with a series of comments, but meanwhile the downvotes are rolling in, most of the comments won't be making sense, mostly because the asker still doesn't know what they needed to ask. Commented Feb 21 at 1:37
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    The beginner needs a conversation to help them grasp what the problem really is and then formulate a good question, and they can't get one here. I'd posit that, outside of the Staging Ground, they should not get one here as the site currently functions because it gets in the way of the clear Question and Answers the site needs to present to future readers. But if you can hide the discussion in the Staging Ground or something similar, and present the question when it's answerable (and useful) now you're cooking with gas. There is room and need for discussion on SO. Just not on the main Q&A page Commented Feb 21 at 1:38
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    If they haven't done the research, it's likely there's a duplicate, which is a close option in the SG, @ChristophRackwitz ; that's a unproblematic conclusion. What is problematic is question that are entirely unclear living "rent free" for ever, never being improved and never getting an answer because it's not clear. Commented Feb 21 at 12:53
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we expect that questions in the new beta experience will be displayed in a format more similar to that of opinion-based content

That experiment has been one of the worst and most destructive experiments of the last year. Why would you think this is a good idea?

I hate looking at that design. I see no answers there. Only comments. It reminds me of the problem that we had in the community before Stack Overflow arrived. Two guys have come up with a brilliant idea then to solve that problem: they created a Q&A site with heavy moderation to make this information easy to find. Maybe you could ask them how to design a successful site? Ohh wait, that's the site you are actively destroying.

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    I wish I could upvote this twice. I actively avoid "Advice" type questions because they're useless, uninformative slop. If that's what the entire site is going to be, I don't see any point in participating at all. Commented Feb 20 at 21:10
  • Agreed - I feel like I'm seeing a gradual regression toward the old web bulletin board systems that Stack Overflow had originally set itself apart from. Granted, site positioning may need a hard look to survive this age of LLMs, but this redesign doesn't seem to be guided by any high-level design philosophy like the founders had. Commented 2 days ago
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However, please note that we plan to retire certain curation workflows, such as close votes and most review queues, in the new design

Imagine you are running a factory which produces widgets, and you realise that you can increase the rate of widget production by simply not discarding the ones which fail QA testing ─ and you can even save money now that there is no need for QA testing. How long is that factory going to stay in business?

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    "60% of the time, our widgets work every time". Commented Feb 18 at 20:57
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    Not quite sure this fits, given the introduction of open ended questions last year hasn't prevented a continued drop from 3.2k questions a week to 2k Commented Feb 18 at 22:59
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    @user400654 but they recorded more clicks! more 1 rep users typed something! There were fewer closures (because they can't be closed)! Commented Feb 18 at 23:31
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    @user400654 That exactly fits with what I am talking about. Of course the factory will see its order numbers drop, when they have intentionally discarded their quality standards. Commented Feb 19 at 9:52
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    Imagine if you are running a factory which produces widgets and suddenly management decides that now it should be rebuilt to resemble a post-apocalyptic, industrial wasteland, where emphasis will be on making the place look as if filled with hazmat and radioactivity to ensure that no factory workers show up. It will stop producing anything but will instead be financed by ad boards displayed to the occasional traveler moving through the wasteland. No workers, no customers, just pure profit from abandoned wasteland ad boards. Commented Feb 19 at 9:55
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    I agree with you. Let me start there. The issue is that the company’s incentives are not to produce a good quality Q&A site; the company’s incentives are to get as many eyeballs as possible so that ads can pay the bills and make them money. Their KPIs are shortsighted on the eyeballs part, and they seem to believe that the curation workflows are at least in part responsible for eyeballs going down, so they are removing them. As long as the visits metrics go up and to the right they are happy. Nothing we can say will fix their flawed outlook and flawed strategy. Commented Feb 19 at 13:26
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    @pilchard Exactly. Big "COVID cases will go down if we stop testing for COVID" energy from Stack Overflow these days. Commented Feb 19 at 14:08
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I'd like to make a proposal.

Run the 'new' SO as a separate independent site initially. Advertise it as such, as much as you like, and let it live (or die) on its own merits.

I feel like the company keeps making the same mistakes over and over again - alienating the community it has, in the hopes of building a community it doesn't, constantly trying experiments that fail, ignoring feedback given by folks who are in and around the community and sites every day. It's disheartening, and honestly at this point, it feels like the company isn't even pretending that our opinions on these matter.

As such, if you believe in the new SO design so much, maybe it would be good to see it live (and die) on its own merits. How would you handle organic and AI slop with lesser moderation tools? What are the pain points? How do you get folks who're engaged in the current model to accept a new one, other than by fiat?

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    Also: how do you differentiate yourself from reddit and discord. Why would I answer on new so rather than those platforms? Commented Feb 18 at 23:46
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    I wouldn't mind renaming this place something like Stack Overflow Classic, if you must. Even close the gates so that only established users (or those with the association bonus) can still contribute, if you really want to weight the scales in favour of the new site. If the new site does better, great! If (as we predict) it doesn't, you won't have killed and eaten the golden goose. Commented Feb 19 at 0:35
  • This is an sound proposal, but let's be honest: It has been made dozens of times already. It has been ignored dozens of times already. The decision to push this to prod didn't happen by accident, it's on purpose. Commented Feb 19 at 7:43
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    I'm confused. the inclusion of the word "initially" in the proposal makes it sound like what the announcement already describes, which makes the following sentence confusing: if it lives, and it's only independent initially, then isn't that also what's already being announced? Commented Feb 19 at 7:51
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    Running a separate site is not the main issue here. The problem is in what comes next. Merging the sites. Commented Feb 19 at 8:03
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    @starball What's announced is going to live on the same Q&A database. It's a different UI to the same thing, not a separate thing. This is going to have an impact even if we still have the old UI – bounties will reach less people, closure and reviews will be less accessible to people, … – and this impact will affect people no matter the UI they use. Commented Feb 19 at 8:08
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    Why start a new site run by this dead weight company though? What good does that do for the users? There is already codidact.com. Unlike this new SO beta, it is mature, it is non-profit, it is open source, it is up & running and actually willing to listen to any feedback we may have. Anyone who likes can contribute as a dev, mod or Q&A user - if there is something you don't like about the site, you can change it yourself or propose the change. Commented Feb 19 at 9:00
  • @Lundin at the end of the day, what's the use of asking anyone who simply wants to do something why they want to do it? if SO were doing better or regarded better, I'm sure some people would ask anyone trying to make an "alternate SO" why they want to do it when SO exists. Commented Feb 19 at 9:05
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    @starball Because you can phrase it the other way around: why would I want to use a site owned by a predatory evil US-based corporation when you don't have to? If there were no alternatives it would be a different matter, but alternatives do exist. They just need more user activity. Commented Feb 19 at 9:29
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    @DalijaPrasnikar If the new model works, it gives people a chance to start from scratch without the baggage of the old platform, If it doesn't the old site's still fairly pristine. Commented Feb 19 at 13:42
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    @Lundin: TBH, codidact has the insufferable comment threads which open in small windows/frames of their own. But - maybe we will just have to all go there together if SE Inc. flush SO down the toilet. One of the main obstacles to that happening was the traffic here, and now the bar to clear for a similar level of user activity is not that high. If enough avid posters move, we could probably do it. I'm not happy about that prospect but if things are going where it looks they are going it might be the better option. Commented Feb 20 at 22:55
  • @einpoklum So give feedback about it or join as a dev. At least they are threaded and not 1990s style like here on SO... Commented Feb 21 at 17:13
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    @Lundin: I'm not a web dev and my hands are already full with FOSS responsibilities I'm afraid. But I do give feedback. Plus, I think the "1990s style" - that is, terse, on the same page, nicely aligned, low "noise" when reading answers - is a much better choice. Commented Feb 21 at 18:45
  • Run the 'new' SO as a separate independent site initially. Advertise it as such, as much as you like, and let it live (or die) on its own merits. Best idea I've heard in a long time! Then we'd still have the real S.O. to refer to :-) Commented Feb 24 at 4:07
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    Codidact has never been a serious alternative. It's a ghost town that looks like an inconsistently-styled SO clone. It doesn't have the search engine visibility required to grow, nor the user base to seed the site with content. Commented Feb 24 at 21:59
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I believe duplicate closure is one of the fundamental mechanics of the platform that pursues a worthwhile ideal- that information not be scattered (difficult to find and/or piece together) or duplicated (where applicable, difficult to maintain). Thom touches on this in their answer post, but I'd like to just dedicate this answer post to the question-

Given that closure purportedly is going away, what exactly does that mean for this mechanism for preventing scattering and difficult-to-maintain repetition of information? Is something more helpful and effective going to take its place?

Duplicate closures are one of the biggest pain points in external discourse. People often say that the duplicate targets chosen don't answer the "duplicate" question. I do believe that that means there's room for improvement with the feature design and/or how it is used (- exactly in what way, I'm not sure), but not that it should go away entirely.

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The "clarification" says a whole lot of nothing; it is a classic corporate "reframing" tactic.

You originally said (and have not retracted):

emphasis mine

we plan to retire certain curation workflows, such as close votes and most review queues, in the new design

The update now claims:

emphasis mine

Removing all review queues or curation altogether is not the direction we currently plan to go.

This is a strawman. No one said you were removing everything; we know you still want us flagging spam for you. Denying that you're removing "all" curation is a deflection to avoid addressing the tools you are planning to take away.

Furthermore, saying these tools won't go away "for the time being" is a non-answer. It just repeats your original premise: the beta will be curation-free until it graduates, at which point some (unspecified) workflows might be implemented. In the meantime, yes, we still have the "old" site, but that doesn't change the fact that the future you are building is designed to exclude us.

You aren't clearing up "confusion"; you're just using more words to say the same thing while the "Library of Knowledge" is being deprecated by stealth.

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    I think they would need a guy like Shog9. He would clearly, sometimes brutally say their version. They could be any hostile, being hostile while at least clearly communicating is better as doing the same on this declarative way. Once, while there was some mod semi-revolt, there was a mod representant, Aaron (?), also living in New York, who as representant of the mods, visited them face to face. He made a notes about, what do they said. It was not very bad, they reasoned everything rationally, mostly by citing corporate customs and business interests. Commented Feb 23 at 16:40
  • Even the "daemon" of the era, the employee whose mistake (wrongdoing?) has made the Monicagate, was written as a fair someone. A guy like Shog could explain the same to us, clearly and directly. We would not like it for sure, also I do not remember him as a positive player (he vehemently supported all the evil I fight since that), but it was at least something what we could understand. Commented Feb 23 at 16:42
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    For the record, I remember Shog9 as a positive player, even when I disagreed with them, which was not as frequent as I find myself in utter disbelief when reading recent announcements, but not a rare occasion either. Commented Feb 23 at 17:28
  • I agree this in the sense that he has given us a clear view, what the company says or wants. He was like an upper contact. Commented Feb 23 at 18:19
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    No. I meant he was generally a rational voice, with a clear vision about the future of the network and mostly good ideas (not just good at communication). Commented Feb 23 at 20:24
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    When reading the annoucement I first read the orginal then some parts of the comments and then the updates and then I was totally baffled. This post explains why. Thanks. Commented 2 days ago
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We are breaking the release of the new design into three major milestones:

This description is utterly generic. Of course you're doing it like this; that's just what a transition looks like. We don't need three paragraph-long bullet-point list items, all clearly written at least with LLM assistance, to understand the concept. Please stop doing this.

However, please note that we plan to retire certain curation workflows, such as close votes and most review queues, in the new design.

These are the core components of curation. It's hard to think of anything else that even really qualifies as curation, aside from editing. And there is no point to editing questions if there are no real standards for rejecting questions.

People who want to get a personalized answer to an individual question can already just use any of innumerable existing forums. They've had that option for decades, since well before Stack Overflow. (Stack Overflow exists specifically as a reaction to that model.) And people who look around for forums can find one much more specific to their question. On top of which, nowadays they have a much better chance of finding a live chat environment for assistance; Discord has done a much better job of organizing people than IRC ever managed.

Whatever AI integrations are inevitably coming to this, meanwhile, also aren't adding value. People who want an LLM to try to answer a question for them already have multiple routes to just ask directly.

In light of all of which: if there is no curated library, and the help-desk experience is not even the slightest bit novel, what is supposed to be the competitive advantage of the new beta site?

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    Precisely. If you have to wade through Crom-knows-how-much-filler to find a workable solution to your problem, why bother doing it here? There's a whole Internet full of it. Commented Feb 18 at 22:37
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    Critique the writing as you will, but know that if there are flaws, it is because a human put them there. No LLM was used in the writing or drafting process of this post at any point, for any reason, even as a structural or authorial aid. Commented Feb 18 at 22:44
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    This answer raises an important point, but I cannot help feel that the critique of the milestone list is utterly generic. It really doesn't matter how they packaged this. Commented Feb 18 at 23:08
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    @Slate would you mind sharing what tool/tech is used for writing this post? Is it MS Word for instance? Commented Feb 18 at 23:50
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    @M-- The Stack Exchange house style for "big" announcements has looked like this for the past decade. It's because they're writing them collaboratively, or because an individual is trying to match the style of previous announcements: nothing to do with software modifying the text. Commented Feb 19 at 0:15
  • @wizzwizz4 I am looking at/for a different thing than the "style", which has everything to do with the software or even the OS. Commented Feb 19 at 13:43
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    @M-- All of our posts are written in Google Docs, though some people brainstorm in notebooks or note-taking apps before writing. Commented Feb 19 at 15:34
  • @Hoid thanks; that clarifies the thing I was interested in and solidifies Slate's point. Commented Feb 19 at 15:45
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I'm actually seeing a positive side of this.

If SE really pushes through with this change, then SO will surely die, or worse, become a garbage heap akin to Quora or Yahoo Answers. Most remaining experts will probably flee in horror, which in turn will ensure that most askers will stop coming here for expert answers. Even Jon Skeet says he will end his 15-year-consecutive-visit streak if this happens.

The proposed change would thus accelerate the timeline for the death of SO, which seemed to me to be dying anyways as SE demonstrated repeatedly in the past years that they do not understand important aspects of their core product or their core community for that matter, and don't have any plans that seem likely to improve the situation. Until now SE staff came around now and then to visit SO on its sick bed and kick it to see if that improves things (spoiler: it made it worse), this time they brought a chainsaw to "improve" it and might just finish it off instead.

The good part about that is that the end result of SO turning into Yahoo Answers 2.0 seemed very likely anyways, but until now it looked like the site would die a slow death and I didn't have it being thrown off a cliff in H1 2026 on my bingo card. This faster timeline could serve as a wake-up call for remaining users, and help the various plans and projects for an SO replacement to gain momentum. A quick and ugly death of SO would probably be significantly better for whatever comes after it than yet more slow drawn-out enshittification over multiple years.

However, this announcement also describes that SE plans to make the internet significantly worse once they switch off the old design. They want to make all existing posts look like the hideous "opinion-based" threaded-comments style, which will significantly harm the experience of reading old Q+A posts with multiple answers (e.g. googling problems and skimming SO posts for solutions). So it seems like the first thing that is needed is a (possibly read-only) mirror of the existing Q+A content or at least the good parts, in a decently readable format. Luckily the CC license allows this, and the data dump ensures that the community has a way to create such a site. Getting google etc to prefer a mirror over SO might be more complicated, but there's hope that the new design will also destroy the SE search ranking...


As a side note, when I initially skimmed the announcement I misread "brand image" in the second paragraph as "brand damage". Feels like that would be the more accurate wording.


Another side note, as expressed by multiple users in various places, it feels completely futile to even attempt to discuss this with SE as most of the non-trivial feedback to designs was entirely ignored over the past years. The work on the new design seems to have been in progress for a while (otherwise there probably wouldn't be a beta out next week) and thus I would be extremely surprised if there is a more meaningful reaction or course correction by SE this time. So I see this announcement as yet another indication that it is time to move on from SE and replace it with something better.

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    However, this announcement also describes that SE plans to make the internet significantly worse once they switch off the old design. This is why the company reneging on their commitment to the data dump was such a big deal. If we had a data dump being published to a third party site as originally promised, we could stand up a more useful version easily if they company makes their version unreadable or tanks entirely. Commented Feb 19 at 15:45
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    @ColleenV true, but as a positive side effect of the severely reduced influx of questions, an older data dump could be used without losing much of value. Commented Feb 19 at 16:25
  • The work on the new design seems to have been in progress for a while or maybe they'll just task an llm with creating the new site and just toss up whatever slop it spews out. Commented Feb 19 at 20:14
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    "an older data dump could be used without losing much of value" — eh, that would also mean losing some curation work, especially identification of duplicates. Commented Feb 19 at 21:07
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    "more slow drawn-out enshittification" is exactly what SO has been doing since 2018-2019 somewhere. So the death is actually neither sudden not surprising. We should all have quit in 2019, but we did stick around to watch the enshittification, mixed with "fire all the competent staff" initiatives. What you fear that we would have to slowly sit and watch already happened. Commented Feb 20 at 13:55
  • a few months ago I needed a copy of the database for some URL shortener statistics. I did manage to download something that looks like a database dump. IDK if it was "complete". it at least seems to contain posts and comments. Commented Feb 20 at 20:54
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    @Lundin "What you fear that we would have to slowly sit and watch already happened" - from my PoV enshittification is ongoing since roughly a decade which is why I wrote "yet more enshittification", but it clearly is not finished as SO currently is still a usable resource. That's also why I soft-quit (stopped most contributions) ages ago. Commented Feb 23 at 9:28
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    @KarlKnechtel "losing curation work" - yes, that would not be ideal. But it would be a small price to pay for keeping access to the SO knowledge base in a decent format. Also IMO it would be a good opportunity to clean up the data dump anyways, e.g. get rid of some of the historically locked questions, delete trash posts that escaped the roomba because OP managed to accept an answer, maybe cleanup some old unanswered posts, delete 90% of the java NPE duplicates, remove all posts made by VonC after chatgpt released, and so on. Commented Feb 23 at 9:36
  • What would it really take to stand up a new site with the old database? Commented Feb 24 at 4:17
  • @SuperJade to build a site from scratch? Months of work... Commented Feb 24 at 8:01
  • @Cerbrus for a functional equivalent to SO, sure. But for continued access to the existing data, a minimalistic read-only pure-html page (plus a bit of styling) showing questions, answers and comments would be enough and could be hacked together in a very short time. Commented Feb 24 at 8:45
  • @SuperJade Just a read only version would probably be doable with a bunch of knowledgeable community members working on it. A full equivalent of SO would be pretty hard though. But we still have to try Commented 2 days ago
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...please note that we plan to retire certain curation workflows, such as close votes and most review queues...

I have to come back shortly from retirement for this. It's an interesting experiment and we will learn something from it. My guess is that SO will become a largely chatty place with very low concentration of knowledge. And traffic will be further plummeting because ultimately neither information seekers nor experts will want to read through all the casual chats. Nobody here will support you. In half a year you will be asking yourself why that didn't work and then maybe the reactions here will start making sense. But it will likely be too late to change anything. Everyone will be gone.

Or not. As said above: interesting experiment (but not in a positive, promising sense, more in a, this will likely once and forever prove how bad forums are sense).

And as typical for the last years, no discussion about it before.

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    There was plenty of discussion and feedback in the linked meta.SE post, which reached a score of -310 and made it to the Top 20 most hated Discussion posts of all time. Meta.SE does not even have 310 active users, meaning regular Q&A users who normally don't visit meta made a pilgrimage there just to tell how bad the design was. That's remarkable. I don't think I could release a more poorly received feature even if I actively tried to make it bad on purpose. Commented Feb 19 at 7:56
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    @Lundin Sure, but the company listens only to actions, not to verbal feedback. The problem is that going too long in the wrong direction will really mean the end of SO. Commented Feb 19 at 8:43
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    Well I do believe that this is the final straw even for the few who have been hanging on to the site. I have no problems with permanently leaving the site in 5 days from now. Trying to give feedback or pointing out company incompetence is just a waste of my time. Hopefully Codidact will get another surge of new users now, so that we can finally forget all about SO. Commented Feb 19 at 8:49
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    @Lundin Yes, Codidact kind of gets a unique selling point there. I might give it another chance. And yes, constantly repeating the same things means that time is wasted. Commented Feb 19 at 11:27
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    "I might give [Codidact] another chance" — acting unofficially as a representative: if something specific turned you off last time that wasn't just the generic "network effects" issue, please feel free to bring it up on our meta. Commented Feb 19 at 21:04
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    @KarlKnechtel No, I think Codidact is a very, very worthy alternative. I mostly found it's too empty. It may simply not have a critical mass and brand awareness to take off. I was even doubting that it's still time for Q&A or if people will prefer LLMs instead and simply copy any knowledge. I like a Wikipedia approach maybe more now. But at least the curation aspect of Codidact is great and soon unique and also that privileges are not tied to rep. Codidact makes almost everything right. Ruby on rails isn't that popular anymore, I heard, but I know little about modern web technology really. Commented Feb 19 at 21:13
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution Thanks for the reminder about Codidact, will most likely close my account on SO and move over once swamp mode is activated. Commented Feb 19 at 22:59
44

What's the difference between the new design and Reddit?

Screenshot of an open-ended question, and by golly it looks exactly like Reddit.

Screenshot of a post on Reddit, and by golly it looks exactly like StackOverflow

I've always found Reddit's design to be sparse, and difficult to browse through visually. Everything looks the same. No color. Just stark, black and white. It's hard to actually focus on this. It's just a big, hot mess of text that my brain can't make sense of. I have the same complaint about a lot of recent applications too (*cough* Microsoft New Outlook *cough*).

I'm totally fine experimenting with non Q&A content, but can we please look different than Reddit?

And where does the question end and the answer begin?

Screenshot of a Q&A post where the only visible separation between the question and first answer is some heading text on an otherwise flat, undefined, and neutered surface.

I mean, after looking at it, I see 1 Answer, but again, it's just a flat surface with text. The question and answer blend together. To be honest, I had to scroll up and down a couple times because I just thought the question was really long and nobody had answered yet.

Now that I scroll up on this post, I'm realizing the author, tags, and auxiliary info used to be at the bottom of the question:


Screenshot of this meta post about the author and tags, which is a good visual separator between question and answers.


Subconsciously, I've used this information block as a clear separator between the question and answers; it was a visual anchor that I looked for when scrolling down the page. I always knew that section, followed by comments in smaller text, was before the answers. It was a flag to stop scrolling. The new design loses that visual anchor.

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    It boggles my mind that they seem so keen on racing towards a generic, washed-out, & bland brand identity, seemingly in the name of being "sleek" and "modern", or maybe distancing themselves from feeling "outdated". This answer has stuck with me; it articulates this idea much better than I can. Commented Feb 24 at 22:04
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    At least reddit has 1 "post" and the rest under it are threaded replies... SO tries to mix in answers in the same layout, and it just one jumbled mess. Commented Feb 24 at 22:05
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    reddit has more consistent text formatting and a better usage of color. I also haven't really known it to shove ai into every crevasse it can find. Commented Feb 25 at 14:44
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    We've all been joking about how they're trying to be a Reddit clone but man, that is really unsubtle. Commented Feb 25 at 19:56
  • (Aside: I appreciate which reddit post you screenshotted in your example 😂) Commented Feb 25 at 22:43
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    The Reddit comparison is apt because they've also spent the past few years pushing through changes that worsen the user experience (shutting down third-party apps, removing the targeted ad opt-out, selling user data to LLM trainers) in order to make the line go up. AND YET, seven years after Reddit rolled out their first major redesign (which has since been replaced by the one shown above), you can still access the 2005 frontend via old.reddit.com. Reddit has become mainstream enough that user revolts aren't viable, but SO is a specialist website by nature. This will not end well for them. Commented 2 days ago
  • Mostly a great answer, but "I'm totally fine experimenting with non Q&A content" prevents me from upvoting this. Commented 15 hours ago
40

About a year ago, Slate (the CM) asked a question on Meta SE: What does the public really need from us? In light of the plan to shift SO's format to those threaded forum "opinion-based" posts, I'd like to remind you of my answer.

I am a moderator on Puzzling SE, the corner of the Internet which I love with all my heart. But before that, I found SO by web-search. Found it over and over and over. Until I trusted this site over all the others. Not that I ever asked a question. But the answer I needed was always just... there. Wonderfully easy to find, in a page laid out consistently, with minimal advertisements (I have never used an ad-blocker), and no sign-up wall. I could just get my answer.

SE sites had quality answers. I could trust an answer on SE, especially the higher-voted ones, to be largely accurate. If there were issues, they'd usually be pointed out in comments. In addition, grammar and spelling were generally at least fine. These baseline standards are not always present on e.g. random blogs.

To which Slate responded:

Correct me if I'm wrong - it's that the public needs us to get information out of experts' heads and into their hands as quickly as possible. Your answer values familiarity, simplicity, speed, and quality. It's actually somewhat more stringent than even a public library - there, you have to do real work to know what you want. We put what you need in your hands at exactly the right time in a way that is familiar and recognizable.

To me, SO is an institution. You were created in 2008? Well, that was the year I started kindergarten. By the time I was learning to code, you'd built up an amazing library, and one that I came to rely on. Questions. With answers. Each clearly marked, sorted by votes, curated by legions of editors. Threaded forums may drive engagement in the moment. But to the kid learning to code by Internet search? That thread is un-navigable. How am I supposed to find the answer I need when it's buried in threads I don't care for?

This is a Q&A site, built not only for askers, but for searchers. Please, please keep it that way.

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  • I'm happy that SE was the right thing for you. The problem is only that it doesn't work for so many others. I doubt that the solution is then that nothing needs to change. Somehow we have two very opposing camps. The everything is perfect as it is and nothing needs to change and the let go of all and everything that made it great because numbers are dropping. I would think that there is lots of middle ground, but discussing it has always been difficult. Commented Feb 23 at 6:32
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution the people who complain are usually the people who try to post, I think. (They have accounts to complain with.) While the poster experience is obviously important -- they're the ones making the library -- the vast majority of people using a given SO answer are not the poster. SO was designed for the read-only user who pops in via web-search. Thus my answer is arguing from that perspective and asking to maintain a usable experience. Commented Feb 23 at 16:49
  • The kid learning programming by internet search would ask a question, "how to write code". And his question would not exist in minutes any more, he would see a number -20 beside that, and many degrading reactions. But the kid learning programming by internet search would find an LLM quite quickly, and his first experience with the SO would quickly convince him to never come back to the SO. Btw, the likely close reason, "this question is not about programming", would also convince him to not believe anything what he gets from SO source. Commented Feb 24 at 11:17
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    SO is not, and has never been, the right place to ask "how to write code". So that's 100% user error if that user came into here, ignored all guidance and instructions, and asked that here. To expect that kind of question to be accepted here is completely misguided. Commented Feb 24 at 11:39
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    @peterh I can't speak for all kids learning to code, obviously, but when I showed up it was with questions like "use of this in a class java" or "combine string and number python" (links taken from first SO result in my web search today) -- standard basic and specific programming problems that were well-answered by SO. Commented Feb 24 at 15:27
  • @bobble There are many ways to handle this problem even without filling the world with programmers hating us. By deleting the content, we expel the user, and by expelling the user, we also lose his future contributions. I find this short-sightedness more the property of a tomato as of an IT decision maker or top content reviewer. The correct solution had been to provide much better onboarding ways for them, talking about similars around 2014 I have hit walls of agressive hostility. Later the company made steps into this direction, these were - are - still unfriendly and un-ergonomic. Commented Feb 24 at 15:33
  • @peterh most kids I know know how to do their homework and then ask someone for help. For those that want others to do their homework no better onboarding is needed. But lets face it, a company that only cares about the kids looking at their ads thinks differently. Commented 2 days ago
  • @463035818_is_not_an_ai Lets face it, if you are in a market race for customers, then you should not humiliate your potential customers. I think the reason, why did they it, were an overweening attitude. They trusted in the network effect. They lost. Commented 2 days ago
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("You" being the royal You, the company)

The most constructive thing I can say about this is the following:

You are dead set on destroying the site anyway, so why don't you just shut it down already and cut your losses? It sounds hyperbolical but it's logical.

The value of the site and the company always were in the output of the countless volunteers who contributed their intelligence, knowledge, and wisdom. For free. Because they found the place useful and/or enjoyable. It's a self-help community.

The value of this place is distributed between the users and the dataset.

The dataset ages, loses value over time. The license on the dataset is permissive in such a way that you can't ask AI companies for money. The dataset is basically worthless to you. I hope you realize that.

The only value you could continue to squeeze money out of is the people. And those are running away from you. I don't mean the askers who used to provide the questions they're now giving to LLMs. I mean those who provide the answers. Those are leaving too. Your treatment of us has already driven many away over the past several years. This latest insult merely accelerates the trend.

With this announcement, and all the lack of responsiveness to community feedback of past "experiments", you have already confessed to not caring for the community that made this site a thing in the first place. I am honestly surprised you still care enough to make announcements. Certainly the feedback won't stop you. Has it ever?

You don't grasp what attracted people nor what kept them here. You really don't. Everyone knows it. Time for you to realize.

For years now, the company has demonstrated a consistent disregard for the community.

You clearly want to start a clone of reddit. The threaded unmoderated experiment clearly is that, a clone of reddit.

Reddit already exists, has for even longer than Stack Overflow (2005 vs 2008), so clearly SO filled a need that reddit couldn't. The world does not need a reddit clone. The world needed Stack Overflow, with its specific structure that focused people on specific problems and technical discussion, towards a technically sound solution. It also served as a place of learning and skill sharpening for many.

You can't expect us to stay put and watch as you dismantle the unique structure of this site and reshape it into a reddit clone. The community will disappear. People have no issue whatsoever simply not logging on anymore. That'll go even quicker than all the users not showing up here anymore as they're taking their technical questions to an AI.

You seem set on that though. So do us a favor, be smart, and start a new site instead of trying to warp this site into something it is not.

You can't just pick us up and set us down on a new site that's a reddit clone, but if you sell it well, maybe some might grow to like it? Eh, who am I kidding. As long as your plan is "let's be reddit", everyone will simply go to reddit instead. You have no idea what differentiates SO from reddit, or what could differentiate your proposed reddit clone from real reddit.

Now that AI has eaten your lunch, there is nothing left to do but to file the paperwork for the tax write-off. Just pack it up. You don't understand the value of this place. It's over. The end of an era. Do the world a favor and donate whatever needs donating to the Internet Archive so they can keep it on display.

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    I don't want them to just shut it down. I still want them in my search results. Commented Feb 20 at 21:06
  • they could make some click money if they kept the content up. if current trends continue, we won't even have that. with all this messing around, IDK if a bit of ad money can pay to keep even a static site online. Commented Feb 20 at 23:00
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    I've been checking out Reddit recently and, like you, seeing the parallels between their layout (and ads) and what Stack Overflow seems to be trying to become. What I have not been seeing there is the volume of troubleshooting/how-to coding questions that I see here. (If they're there, they must be hard to find?) I think I'm seeing that we still have something here Reddit doesn't; the question on my mind is how much of that we might keep or lose if we go down a path of Reddit-fication. Commented Feb 21 at 1:59
  • "You have no idea what differentiates SO from reddit, or what could differentiate your proposed reddit clone from real reddit." Interesting thought. Maybe they have an idea and don't tell. Or maybe they haven't. But surely they will not produce exactly the same thing. There will be some differences at least. And Reddit is not the worst site on the Internet actually. They could maybe make it more like Truth-Social for example. Commented Feb 21 at 8:51
  • @DanGetz I'm not looking for the "beginner handholding" places there. I do see "help me with my code" questions in spaces I'm interested in, such as computer vision and machine learning. I'm generally not a fan of tree-shaped conversations in general (see also: e-mail). impossible to keep track of chronology, break down as soon as you address/quote multiple messages, ... Commented Feb 21 at 11:19
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution if they think they have "something", they should say what it is. what they do is IMHO a downgrade from what we have right now, and I don't just mean the promised deletion of user moderation. I'm mostly accusing them of this because they constantly keep being bombarded with "this place sucks reddit is way nicer" and I think they started believing it, forgetting that those types' opinions are basically just expressions of butthurt because this place is more structured than reddit for a reason. it's not something this company should strive for. it's illogical to. Commented Feb 21 at 11:25
  • I would also prefer if they would tell us the whole plan for the future in one go. Maybe there isn't one, or maybe there is and they (rightly) fear we won't like it. However, it's not honest to keep information back and it's stupid not to have a plan at all. I also think that structured knowledge is much better, but lately there haven't been many people here asking new questions. What value has a place that is super structured but has no activity? Also close to zero. I don't have the answer and I had hoped we can work together to find it, but it seems the company simply doesn't want anymore. Commented Feb 21 at 13:10
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    A way forward with structured knowledge and strong activity increasing the quantity of it, will not be found here (likely), but where else then? This is what I'm asking myself currently. Commented Feb 21 at 13:16
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Update

We’d like to clarify the announcement that review queues and question closure will not be going away for the time being.

This doesn't help. AFAIK no one has understood that the curation workflows will disappear next week. The concern is that the company have already made their mind to disappear them without explaining why and without giving a plan about how the goals supported with these features will be supported in the "new" thing.

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    It's quite often so that redesigns break workflows. I often thought that it's because the amount of work of a redesign is underestimated, but it's probably also deliberate, a too good opportunity to go by, to cut things somebody doesn't like. Commented Feb 21 at 8:53
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It was obvious from the beginning that this was going to be the likely outcome of the latest discussions "experiment". I'm not buying that this was just a sudden change of heart in the past 30 days, given all signs in the experiment literally pointed to this. The goals were set far broader than the experiment could possibly reach without fully replacing Q&A, and now that's what we're seeing.

I'm not sure why it's even being announced on meta at this point, no one here (outside of people who want to watch the world burn and some staff) wants it and none of our feedback will matter anyway.

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    It's announced either "because we're the good guys" (we can't be the baddies, surely), or the MBA-type in charge is worried about bad publicity if they gut the platform without pretending to engage in discussions about it first. Commented Feb 18 at 22:49
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However, please note that we plan to retire certain curation workflows, such as close votes and most review queues, in the new design.

By "certain curation workflows", you mean "almost all of them, for almost all users"? This isn't just a design update - it's a substantial change to how the site works.

The entire point of Stack Overflow was to get away from the broken discussion forum model. I'm old enough to remember having to wade through endless clarifying questions, "me too!" comments, etc. to find the one piece of information I needed. Quite bluntly, if Stack Overflow became just another discussion forum, I would have little interest in continuing to participate. The entire reason I read Stack Overflow is to have easy access to well-organized, curated information, and if that's no longer the case I see little value.

I already actively avoid reading "best practices" and "advice" type questions because they're useless, uninformative slop that distract me from finding real information. You have to wade through piles of garbage to find any information at all. If that's going to be the entire site now, I can't imagine why I'd continue to visit Stack Overflow at all (far less actively participate).

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    I also avoid the garbage opinion questions, the problem, is they are being more common and the quality isn’t increasing and cannot be moderated Commented Feb 21 at 1:00
  • @SecurityHound I certainly hope that that kind of post doesn't represent their plan for the site, but I have this sinking feeling that that's exactly what they want. Commented Feb 21 at 3:09
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Also, I understand the point about threaded replies. While I think your opinion is valid here, we are still settling on solutions to mitigate this by using accepted answers to change how the content is visually presented, so there is a clear Q&A pair.

Yeah, we used to have that. Then we changed it: Outdated Answers: accepted answer is now unpinned on Stack Overflow. This move was almost-universally praised, with only minor downsides.

Reverting that evidence-based decision, for no other reason than "someone in the company thinks they have a better idea", is ridiculously foolish. That alone should be enough to set off giant flashing warning klaxons, but it's far from the only issue here.

This would also include expanding the ability for certain users to change a question's accepted answer, and possibly add multiple accepted answers down the road. This is, however, still being discussed.

It sounds like you're planning to convert all answers into comments, then re-invent the existing vote curation system for a new kind of "super-answer", functionally equivalent to current answers.

Why not simply allow non-mods to convert answers into comments, and add a feature to promote comments to answers? That's a far less drastic change, which accomplishes all the same things.

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    I'd much rather see the concept of accepted answer gone completely. It causes more bad than good things. Commented Feb 19 at 2:36
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    @Dharman For certain kinds of question (where the OP has privileged access to the ability to verify an answer's correctness), it is useful. Stack Overflow doesn't tend to have those questions as much as some other sites do: in fact, SO questions are supposed to be self-contained. Commented Feb 19 at 8:32
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    I am not suggesting going back to the old model in the outdated answers post. I am suggesting more in line with what you are, just backwards. Allowing mods and certain users to add one or more answers as the accepted answers, and just have the discussion sit behind them. Commented Feb 20 at 15:41
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    @Hoid I would call that "back-to-front" (since "backwards" has negative connotations). Additionally, it's a regression, re-introducing many of the problems that accepted answer unpinning solved. The problem you're trying to solve with "new acceptance" is supposed to be addressed by the voting system: you should be thinking about voting reform (which is hard), rather than mixing an ad-hoc voting reform with a jargon round-robin. It seems like the decision-makers are expecting that to somehow, magically, make the hard problem easier. It won't. Commented Feb 21 at 1:02
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    I have no problem with making a new site. I have no problem with calling the new site "Stack Overflow": rename the existing site, if you have to. Don't bulldoze what we have, because you want to use the land for something you expect to be more profitable: it's the internet, there is no land! (If the required programming work is too intense, you have an army of programming experts who are already volunteering their labour, and might not quite be alienated enough to decline to help with the programming as well.) Commented Feb 21 at 1:05
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    @Hoid that's Reddit, basically. Although, to be fair, that's not the worst thing about it. The whole format of "threaded" replies is the problem, but I am sure folks have already explained that problem to you (SO). Commented Feb 23 at 14:28
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However, please note that we plan to retire certain curation workflows, such as close votes and most review queues, in the new design.

Then you will remove the essence of Stack Overflow, and what will be left will be a hollow shell of its former self. People who care about contributing to a knowledge base where you can quickly get answers to questions without sorting through forum-like fluff will leave (if they haven't done so already). I may visit this site occasionally, but only from external search engines. If Stack Overflow goes under, I hope the knowledge base will remain, publicly hosted elsewhere. (Hey, good idea -- Stack Underflow!)

Go ahead and flag this answer as not answering the question! Oops, you can't do that any more!

“No matter how far you have gone on a wrong road, turn back.” –Turkish proverb

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    There's already more than a few sites that just repost the stackoverflow database. Traditionally with more and worse ads, but given where the sites been going, some of them don't compare too badly any more. Commented Feb 20 at 0:39
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We’d like to clarify the announcement that review queues and question closure will not be going away for the time being.

That's a bit confusing. You announced that review queues and question closure will be going away. Are you clarifying that statement or reversing it?

Are you trying to say that review queues and question closure will not be going away for the foreseeable future? The phrase "for the time being" does not fill me with confidence.

We do believe that curation is important. It has been central to what makes Stack Overflow valuable. Removing all review queues or curation altogether is not the direction we currently plan to go.

So why did you remove most curation in the opinion-based (etc) question experiment?

The review queues and question closure will not be a part of the initial release, but will be included in the scope of the overall redesign and will be incorporated as the beta graduates to general availability.

In other words, despite the enormous backlash seen in the answers and comments on this page, and your statement that you don't want to remove curation, that you are still going ahead anyway with the new beta test, even though it's not possible to perform reviews or closures on the beta site in its current state. Is that correct?

If you really want to clarify the situation regarding review queues and closures, you should probably make a fresh question. This one is still attracting answers and comments from people who appear to be under the impression that you're killing the Stack Overflow that they know and love.

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My general impression of the "opinion/advice" questions is that they're mainly bots talking to bots, with occasional "organic" marketing paragraphs promoting some tool slipped in. They're also often a particularly tedious form of AI answer since the nature of the question means they end up waffling around the subject in vague platitudes with nothing really concrete to say.

I'm not sure if that's the inherent nature of the subject matter, or just the fact they're much less heavily moderated.

(Ironically, Reddit -- which I think is the discussion-type model that you're trying to go for -- does actually seem to have more human-written content in a lot of the programming sub-reddits, and people are often fairly good at calling out the more egregious AI slop.)

Either way, my immediate impression whenever I open one of the discussion-type questions on Stack Overflow is usually "there's nothing that's worth my time reading".


Edit with some additional thoughts on the subject:

  • I agree that the demand for the kind of technical question that was the core of Stack Overflow has greatly reduced so even with no barriers to asking, I understand the shift to more opinion-based question.
  • There's always some tension between ease of participation and keeping a quality of content that makes it worth reading and participating. And of course not all moderation actually leads to increased quality.

If you look at the "free-discussion" alternatives (e.g. Reddit, topic-specific Discord channels) they're usually actually quite heavily moderated. Both in terms of removing low-quality content and in feedback signals like down-voting or just being rude to users that don't meet the standards.

I think their success is partly that they have variable levels of moderation. So if you find that one sub-reddit is too heavily moderated or too lightly moderated then you can trivially move to another without leaving the platform as a whole. That lets them resolve the quality-participation tension pretty naturally.

Currently I find the discussion questions here some way short of my personal quality threshold so don't really want to participate then in their current form.

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  • I haven't noticed yet how common "bots talking to bots" is on the current opinion questions, but I absolutely think that's the future of advice questions on open sites like this one. Chatbots today can give confident, helpful-sounding advice without needing decades of experience, or (like you say) needing to be truly helpful. For various reasons, people want to copy and paste that. (Either that, or harsh moderation with a lot of humans getting their answers deleted as a side effect.) Commented Feb 23 at 23:39
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    It's possible I've slightly overestimated the "bots talking to bots" by mainly looking at the worst questions, but here's a good example: stackoverflow.com/questions/79816280/… Commented 2 days ago
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When I clicked "Try new site BETA", I thought I tabbed over to Reddit. Here is a list of Reddit competitors, all unsuccessful:

  • Voat.co, launched 2014, dissolved 2020
  • Lemmy.world, launched 2019, stagnated 2023 growing slowly as of 2026
  • PieFed competes with Lemmy but has no Wikipedia article
  • Imzy, launched 2016, defunct 2017. It tried to be "friendlier", paralleling efforts here to be more welcoming to askers
  • Steemit launched 2017, but forked 2020
  • Digg, launched 2004, declined 2010 after a "poorly received redesign". Sounds familiar? Edit: Let's see whether the 2025 relaunch can fix things
  • Slashdot, launched 1997, declined 2012 after a sale
  • Certain non-English clones survived, but didn't spread globally. They carved out their niche because they had a loyal userbase held back from English-speaking websites

We're on the way towards becoming Google+. Google+ couldn't compete with Facebook, despite forcibly onboarding YouTube users. Having a healthy userbase for the Network effect is very important. Making a Reddit clone will only cause all our users to flee to the real Reddit, draining the userbase.

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  • lemmy is so last year, we're on piefed now (which does actually have the ability to mark replies as "answers") Commented Feb 25 at 15:49
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    Lemmy.world is not stagnated, I use it and it has been slowly growing. Your link is from 3 years ago. Recent stats: sem1.spyessentials.ai/website/lemmy.world/overview . And it's a bit comical you mention Digg without mentioning the recent Digg reboot, maybe we'll get a SO reboot in 15 years... lol. The rest, yeah I agree. Commented Feb 26 at 1:15
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    All the users have already fled, not necessarily to Reddit but all over. They are trying to make the remaining 5% leave too. Commented 2 days ago
  • meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/258828/welcome-redditors Commented 2 days ago
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The end is nigh.

This is effectively an announcement of the end of the Stack Overflow we loved, to be replaced by what appears to be Garbage Overflow. It was obvious this was where the company was headed when the curation-free opinion-based question experiment rolled out. So I'm not shocked.

Who should we blame? Of the many 'villains' suggested, it seems clear to me that AI killed the Stack Overflow star. During the period in which the gen AI ban has been in effect, my observation is that these AI tools have gotten dramatically better at programming. I assume that it is to these tools that the great bulk of programming questions are now being asked. Technology always marches forward, mercilessly obsoleting things as it goes. I will not resist being assimilated. Go Borg!

I will hang around to see what the site morphs into, but I doubt I will be interested in contributing to Garbage Overflow. I have tried contributing a few times to the new opinion-based questions, but my heart wasn't in it.

Thanks to everyone who made the original Stack Overflow great. A special shout-out to all the past and present moderators. You folks put in a lot of work to keep the site excellent, and while I didn't always agree with you, I always trusted you. You should all be proud of your efforts.

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  • I have spent over 40 hours with the best and latest models to solve a problem that is fairly simple but extremely “pain in the rear” to write code for, I am still trying to get the LLM, to generate something that is actually correct. I probably would have spent half the time, to write it myself, but I am not convinced of the quality of the LLMs today based on my experience. Using tools like Warp helped my document the problem set but I am not confident in the quality of the documents based on the fact it cannot write the working code. Commented Feb 21 at 0:58
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    @SecurityHound: I don't do 'vibe coding', and I don't expect to type in a problem statement and get a finished program. I expect to read the code I get, and to test and debug it, just like I always have. I expect these products to make me more productive, and I'm confident they have significantly done that. But I can't prove it. Commented Feb 21 at 2:14
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    I don’t either. The system the code runs on is in a secure room and the language is niche, so documentation and knowledge is tough to find when you don’t know how to accomplish what your attempting to do (but have a general idea). I have had mixed results, but when it was important, it has failed nearly every time. Anyways I agree with your answer Commented Feb 21 at 2:19
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…we expect that questions in the new beta experience will be displayed in a format more similar to that of opinion-based content because we believe it expands how people engage with Stack Overflow and how content is created and shared…

Opinion-based content dooes not belong on StackOverflow. Questions that can be unambiguously answered is literally the entire point of StackOverflow.

Also, putting this kind of content on StackOverflow undercuts existing communities that touch on them, like codereview.stackexchange.com or softwarengineering.stackexchange.com.

And that is literally the whole point of the Stack Exchange network: focused communities that have rules.

If you try to make StackOverflow everything to everyone, you're not only defeating the purpose of SO, but you're defeating the purpose of the entire Stack Exchange network.

We are seeing positive engagement with this format

Of course you are, opinions are easy. You'd also see positive engagement from showing porn. That doesn't mean either belongs here.

If you lower the bar, then yes, you'll get more "engagement" in the short term. But in exchange, you'll get low quality content.

High expectations for the questions and the answers is what makes these sites work. Programming is hard. It requires careful thought. It's ok to ask people to think.

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  • I think the VtC queue is very dysfunctional, there is not a real decision process. I think it is more like a race, who can cast more close votes while avoiding to hit an audit. I support my this view by the known fact that about 95% of the votes are for close there, and exactly the most avid VtC reviewers seem having this habit. A fair VtC queue, where real decisions are happening, I would happily agree your post for such a parallel Universe, but that is not this. Commented Feb 24 at 11:06
  • It's not immediately clear, why partially opinion based content could not co-exist with existing content when clearly marked. Quite a number of different people saw some value in that. If in doubt I always go for freedom. Rather let more things be that might not be a good for than delete stuff that could be useful. Commented Feb 24 at 17:19
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    @NoDataDumpNoContribution for a system like that to work requires filtering, not just marking. Not only that, the system needs to be legible from the outside. If I'm using external search, I want a reliable way to land on pages that are not the opinion proving grounds. Commented Feb 24 at 20:40
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Your site logo looks more like a menu icon than the menu icon, particularly on mobile where we’re used to hamburger menus

header

The old design is far more effective at presenting them differently enough on mobile

old header

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    IMO it looks like a stack of books falling over. A "stack over fall", if you will. Seems appropriate. What's that saying about understanding, organizations, and cabals of enemies again? Commented Feb 24 at 19:17
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    Eh, I take that back. I still find myself hesitating to find the right icon to click even on normal sites and here on meta… Commented Feb 24 at 19:58
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    Why can't web designers just label their icons? They're hardly ever as communicative as imagined. I've gotten used to the idea that the hamburger icon marks a drop-down menu, but it gives me absolutely no idea what will be in that menu. I think it's only appropriate for sites where the answer is "everything that isn't main page content". Other icons in the top bar also open up what can reasonably be called menus, and we constantly get questions about, in particular, where the "log out" option is. Commented Feb 24 at 20:27
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    we're also re-using icons still. "best practice" was changed to the award icon, and so was the achivements menu that was also using the same icon as best practice previously. surely we can find a icon that makes more sense for "best practice"? 🚽 Commented Feb 24 at 20:39
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The review queues and question closure will not be a part of the initial release, but will be included in the scope of the overall redesign and will be incorporated as the beta graduates to general availability.

I'll believe that when I see it. The cynical view on this is it looks like yet another case of pushing half-baked features live, and then not fixing them later. For example we still can't flip questions from the new bad opinion-based format to standard Q&A with answers + comments.

(In the opinion-based format, everything is an answer that bumps the question, even replies that would obviously be comments. But you don't get any notifications for upvotes on your answers so you don't know when it's getting any attention. And of course for long-term it's hard to find real answers in a sea of discussion, for questions that are real questions, not invitations to discussion. But the only selection that results in a normal question is "troubleshooting/debugging", because the people that built it claim they didn't realize that wasn't the only kind of on-topic question on the old SO. And still haven't even changed that part of the ask UI. It's been broken for several months now, making most of the interesting (non-debugging) questions use this bad format that's not good for technical questions which do have real answers. This kind of active hostility to the library of questions and answers is inexcusable. So I have zero trust that any future changes are actually well-intentioned and aren't instead going to be yet another way to degrade the site.)

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    "But the only selection that results in a normal question is "troubleshooting/debugging", because the people that built it claim they didn't realize that wasn't the only kind of on-topic question on the old SO." Not only is that "not the only kind of on-topic question", it's generally what we don't want. We want people to try to figure out something locally, identify a known unknown, and then ask a question that seeks information (like "why does it work this way?") rather than just assistance. Commented Feb 24 at 20:36
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    @KarlKnechtel: Exactly. Complete and total misunderstanding what made Stack Overflow into what it was before they started breaking it. I know the saying "never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence", but when the level of incompetence required is so high to explain things, it's hard to not to wonder. (And besides, it's not ok to be that un-knowledgeable about the thing they're developing for. If you literally have only wild guesses, maybe don't change anything until you replace assumptions with facts.) Commented Feb 24 at 22:34
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    @KarlKnechtel: And like I wrote in this answer, not fixing anything for months after those glaring errors were pointed out seems like clear malice or disregard for the quality of the site, forcing broken stuff down our throats. Regardless of whether it was malice or incompetence which led to the initial design. (SO staff, I'm sure there are some who weren't knowingly making the site worse, and I don't want to be rude to everyone involved, but this is how I feel we've been treated by SO in general, as an expert in the tags I follow who answers and edits a lot, and knows the canonical dups.) Commented Feb 24 at 22:55
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    "I'll believe that when I see it. The cynical view on this is it looks like yet another case of pushing half-baked features live, and then not fixing them later. For example we still can't flip questions from the new bad opinion-based format to standard Q&A with answers + comments." IMO, a better example is that we still can't retract <s>votes</s> thumbs on open ended questions. I'd understand an MVP having just "cast vote" no "retract vote". But open ended questions are four months old. And retraction surely isn't as complex to implement as "change type". Commented Feb 25 at 12:28
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We are currently in the process of rolling out and troubleshooting certain issues with the beta

Seems like the file containing all the color codes is missing, all I see is black and white

enter image description here


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    It's like a mourning dress. Strangely appropriate. Commented Feb 25 at 10:24
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    This was my thought too. The design is so minimalist that its actually hard to understand the context of each element. Commented Feb 25 at 14:12
  • Seems like last time we complained so much that they must've decided "oh well, let's use any accent color as long as it's black" Commented Feb 26 at 5:15

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