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Scenario

Say we are doing some practice approaches into KSEE on the LOC-D approach. We are just southwest of the field and ATC/CFII says to climb to 5500 direct to BARET, cross BARET 5500 cleared for the localizer approach. So we climb to 5500 direct to BARET. We fly direct to BARET on Magenta needles. Once we get over BARET (Established outbound) we switch from Magenta to green needles for the loc-d approach and we fly our procedure turn to 134 heading for 1 minute outbound. Once the minute is up, we turn left heading of 314 to intercept the localiser course.

My questions

#1 This would put us between WOPOS and BARET under the IAP published altitudes (WOPOS is 6800 and BARET is 5900), since we have been at 5500 since crossing BARET. Would we just maintain this altitude until crossing BARET for ZIRLU which is 4900. Does the updated 'clearance' of 5500 trump over the published altitudes?

#2 can we use GPS (magenta needles) to fly the published missed to the VOR?

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  • $\begingroup$ The actual minimum altitude for the procedure turn is 7300 since you cannot assume you would be able to execute the course reversal in the 3nm between BARET and WOPOS. In a light jet for example, you likely would be flying outbound from BARET at 170kts or more. At 180kts, BARET => WOPOS is 1 minute which is not enough to execute a course reversal. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 19, 2025 at 18:38

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You should never get this clearance, and should reject it if you did. The procedure turn takes you close to peaks that are nearly 5000 feet. 5500 feet is a clearly inadequate altitude.

You can fly the missed approach with an approved GPS.

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  • $\begingroup$ Even if it was a practice clearance for a practice approach from a DPE/CFII? My DPE gave me this while VFR during my checkride acting as ATC for my ride. Ok, thanks for clarifying the missed with GPS! $\endgroup$ Commented May 25, 2024 at 1:13
  • $\begingroup$ @TrevorMiller I'm not sure it's helpful to ask students to fly practice approaches in ways they never would in real life! And even VFR with a CFII watching that's pretty darn low over mountainous terrain! On a cold day you might actually hit a mountain! $\endgroup$ Commented May 25, 2024 at 1:20
  • $\begingroup$ Hey Chris, I updated my comment on the situation! I agree 100% with you, this just happened to me and I was confused. I believe I was left so low because of the Bravo from 5800 to 10000 $\endgroup$ Commented May 25, 2024 at 1:23
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    $\begingroup$ @TrevorMiller Seems likely. I'd not worry about it too much. If it was your CFII I'd suggest you have a talk with them about briefing things more carefully when they are deviations from realistic IFR flight. Congratulations (I hope) on your instrument rating! $\endgroup$ Commented May 25, 2024 at 1:34
  • $\begingroup$ Roger that and thank you!! I appreciate the insight $\endgroup$ Commented May 25, 2024 at 2:08

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