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Things are truly out of control here. This question was a good and serious question in differential topology, and the OP provided some reasoning and background. Moreover, I answered the question with a good answer.

Although I know one of the people voting to close to be quite knowledgeable in topology, I cannot make that claim for the remaining voters to close. Indeed, one says he's a tenth-grader. Seriously? What background does this user bring to bear on the decision?

I've been a (valued) contributor to this site for over a dozen years, but my patience is truly wearing thin. We need an attitude readjustment on the part of the site.

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    $\begingroup$ The question seems fine to me. I have reopened it. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 9, 2025 at 19:57
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    $\begingroup$ That said, what is your question? $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 9, 2025 at 20:04
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    $\begingroup$ Please avoid talking about particular users. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 9, 2025 at 20:04
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    $\begingroup$ I agree that the question should not have been closed. It seems reasonable. As Shaun has already reopened it, no further action seems to be necessary. Please note, for future reference, that there is a thread for requesting that posts be reopened (I do keep track of new answers to that question, as do many other people on the site). $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 9, 2025 at 20:07
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    $\begingroup$ Thanks, @Xander. I thought all I could do was vote to reopen. This is uncharted territory for me, after the 12+ years. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 9, 2025 at 20:10
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    $\begingroup$ I think that Ted's post here is about more than reopening one closed question. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 9, 2025 at 22:37
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    $\begingroup$ To make it easier to access: timeline and revision history. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 10, 2025 at 7:01
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    $\begingroup$ You can flag posts for moderator attention, if you see examples of poor reviewing. Enough flags might convince mods to do something about particular users, or take larger-scale actions (e.g. stronger quality standards for reviewers?). On the debate of whether experts should close questions, though : I can't think beyond Asaf's comment here. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 10, 2025 at 7:01
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    $\begingroup$ @TedShifrin "Out of control" seems like a gross exaggeration. The tone of this post is one of a single closure being a camel-back-breaking moment. But closures like this will continue to happen forever. For one thing, there are false-positives. For another, there is variety of opinion. The important thing is that there are mechanisms to rectify false positives and discuss differences of opinion, and they seem to be working, this a case in point. So... this seems like it ought to be a duplicate of the current iteration of the long-standing requests-for-reopen ticket process. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 12, 2025 at 14:45
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    $\begingroup$ The closure of questions for dubious reasons has, in my perception, increased dramatically in the last year or so. I think it's totally reasonable to ask what procedural change has occurred to cause this, and urge that that procedural change be "rolled back" (so to speak) $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 13, 2025 at 5:14
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    $\begingroup$ @Ted Please do not attack "the close question brigade", because it does not exist and approaches conspiratorial, which is so unlike what I've respected you for. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 13, 2025 at 21:47
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    $\begingroup$ @amWhy You may not agree with the value judgment (and I personally don't think the choice of words is helpful for the discourse), but it has been an ongoing trend for quite some years now that "curators" and "answerers" have become more and more separate user groups, and this fundamental difference in site experience is at play in a lot of the reoccurring conflicts here on meta. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 14, 2025 at 9:39
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    $\begingroup$ I had also noticed the increase in frivolous close votes and have been (silently) very annoyed about it. In moderator elections I have been looking for candidates proposing to reduce this. In future elections I would urge candidates that want to do something about this to put that clearly in their statement. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 20, 2025 at 16:14
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    $\begingroup$ @JyrkiLahtonen I have been on this site for a bit longer than my current account suggests. Anyway, I remember these discussions well (and I don't think it's necessarily a good thing that they have mostly died out). But my point was a different one: When I say "curators" and "answerers", I don't mean the old divide between "librarians" and "teachers", although there is certainly a connection. Rather, if you look at many of the closed questions brought up on meta, you will find people closing whose activity in recent years was almost exclusively in the review queue ... (contd.) $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 21, 2025 at 8:49
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    $\begingroup$ The "close-question brigade", as Ted calls them, but I think that is too negative: Naturally, a question has to be closed first before it can get re-opened, so curation will always be more on the side of closing. This development is probably an unavoidable specialization of site use, but I believe it effects these meta debates in a way that has not really been discussed: The site simply looks very different in the review queue compared to the main page with a long list ignored tags. And I think this development of a user group who mostly review and don't ask or answer is a more recent one. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 21, 2025 at 8:53

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I take the question to be a general one, asking for a discussion of what we can do about this clear and present ongoing problem, rather than about a specific case.

As such, I profoundly disagree with the sentiment that no further action is needed. It's very clear that the close vote system is being widely misused and therefore not functioning as intended, and the action to be taken is to work out how to fix that.

As background, I've been using Stack Exchange for nearly 14 years and can clearly remember it working differently, despite barely having changed at all on a technical level since then. The difference is that, as originally intended, close votes were part of a community moderation system. The idea was that communities use the meta sites to form a consensus about the rules for questions, and then trusted (i.e. high rep) users would use the review queues to implement that policy. The idea was that up and down votes are your own free choice, you can use them how you want, but close and reopen votes are for implementing policy. This was a pretty hard rule and (at least on physics.SE, where I was active at the time), and moderators worked hard to enforce it, both by manually reversing incorrect decisions and (I'm fairly certain) by sanctioning users who repeatedly voted against policy.

This wasn't a perfect system. For one thing, there was no clear definition of what counts as a meta consensus, and I always felt that gave the moderators a little too much power, since they had some freedom to interpret it. For another, when there's a discussion along the lines of "should we allow this kind of question?" there's a bit too much of a tendency for the conclusion to be "no", so that the scope of the site gets steadily narrowed down until only the most boring kinds of question are allowed to exist. But generally the moderators were fair, and at least we all had a say in what the scope should be.

Compare that to today, where close and re-open votes are a free-for-all, treated in the same way as up and down votes in that people seem to be allowed to use them how they like. Long-term users who should know better make up their own rules and enforce them without penalty, while less experienced users apply the existing rules in broken and inconsistent ways, and others just seem to cast close votes on every question in the review queue no matter what. As a result nobody knows which questions they can or can't ask, and essentially any question can end up bouncing back and forth between the close and reopen queues for basically no reason.

There will be those who argue that this change has been necessary, because the number of users has increased and AI has arrived on the scene, and as a result there's a constant flood of low-quality questions that need to be closed. To some extent this is true. It is sad that Stack-Exchange-the-company has been so focused on white-elephant AI projects instead of monitoring the situation and adjusting the community moderation system to deal with it. But we are stuck with the system we have and have to find a way to make it work.

But while quality control is important, and has always been an important part of the Stack Exchange system, quality control over question closing is also important. Who would want to ask a question on a site where it might get randomly closed for no reason, or where you have to play a little political game to get it reopened, even if the question is viewed as a good one by experts in its field? Seasoned users might find this a minor annoyance, but for new users it's a pretty absurd experience, and I suspect a lot of the people who ask good questions only for them to be closed don't come back. I suspect this is part of the reason for the decline in good questions.

To fix this situation, I think that we, as a community, including the moderators, need to put more emphasis on deciding the rules and applying them consistently. The free-for-all needs to end. That means:

  • we should decide, as a community, via consensus on meta, what exactly the boundaries should be regarding how the close vote system is used, and
  • once that's done, the moderators should enforce these agreed rules, including a strict but fair application of sanctions against users who repeatedly break them

I don't think applying sanctions would be appropriate without having written rules about it, and I don't think it would be appropriate for anyone besides the community to formulate such rules. But I do think there is a need for such rules and that we should try to formulate them.

I realise that there will be some who disagree, and that there is a good chance that one or more of those who disagree will be moderators. But, again invoking the spirit of the old days, I think this is ok. Moderators have a voice like everyone else, and I hope that if the community decides to start formulating rules about this and reaches any kind of consensus, the moderators will be fair and act accordingly.

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    $\begingroup$ Thank you for this, I find it valuable. Reaching consensus here may be challenging because the Math.SE community is so divided about its missionand has been divided for so long, and attempts to reach consensus in the past have been so challenging. The Math.SE community is a bit unlike many of the other Stack Exchange communities in that respect, so it might be harder for Math.SE to follow in the footsteps that other sites have taken. Still a worthy vision, and I take your point about the experience for people asking questions. Do you have any suggestions how to bridge the divide? $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 18, 2025 at 16:19
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    $\begingroup$ @D.W. I don't know. It's really hard. But I think the lack of rules and the divisions play into each other - if there are no clear rules then everyone acts independently, and that turns everything into a fight instead of a consensus-building activity. If we can at least get people interested in formulating rules, and write down whatever small things people do broadly agree on, it might be a baby step towards changing that. But I don't really know. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 18, 2025 at 16:30
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    $\begingroup$ Does any other StackExchange site have a CURED-like chatroom ("for feedback/discussion/requests of Close/Undelete/Reopen/Edit/Delete for questions and answers on Math SE")? $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 19, 2025 at 8:41
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    $\begingroup$ @D.W. after some more thought, let me say what I think a bit more firmly: I think the only way to resolve such a divide is to put it to a vote and make a decision about it, otherwise it will just fester forever. Whichever side loses has to be prepared to live with the decision, and the moderators have to be prepared to enforce the decision, even if it turns out not to be the one they personally wanted. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 19, 2025 at 16:32
  • $\begingroup$ @ryang Stack Overflow has SOCVR: Stack Overflow Close Vote Reviewers. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 19, 2025 at 16:35
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    $\begingroup$ But at the same time I don't think the vote should be about "curators" versus "answerers", because that's too vague and it's a false dichotomy anyway. Instead, votes should be about specific policies, and we just do that bit by bit, systematically, until the rules are clear. Basically, when someone asks "why was my question closed?" the replies should not be personal opinions but a link to a meta post where someone said "I propose we adopt policy XXX", and there were a "yes" answer and a "no" answer, and the "yes" answer clearly has more votes. If that doesn't exist, it gets created. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 19, 2025 at 16:35
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    $\begingroup$ (+1) I am starting to believe in Achille Hui's [prophecy][1]. I understand that quality/noise control is crucial, but the close brigade is actively keeping new users away from this community, and the situation is clearly out of control. Questions by new users get closed in seconds after the standard banner is written in the comments: is it unthinkable to just improve the question? [1]: math.stackexchange.com/users/59379/achille-hui $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 21, 2025 at 0:14
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    $\begingroup$ @JackD'Aurizio, My hope is that those who would like to see the question remain open would improve the question. Ideally those who vote to close would improve the question too, but I don't think they have a responsibility to do so (i.e., if they don't have time to improve the question, I don't think that precludes them from putting it on hold until someone improves it). One challenge is that the Math.SE culture is often opposed to anyone other than the author making changes to the question, and I've argued that this culture should change, so people will feel free to improve questions. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 21, 2025 at 3:00
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    $\begingroup$ "the Math.SE culture is often opposed to anyone other than the author making changes to the question" $\quad$ This distaste glosses over this site's goal of being a repository, and seems premised on a false dichotomy between a superficial edit and a distortive edit. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 21, 2025 at 5:08
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    $\begingroup$ @D.W. We have the page Guidelines for Context Edits and Rewrites, this isn't really talked about but while the culture is in practice closed, in theory(the above page being the theory) it is pretty open. One just has to know the rule to apply it. Repeated application will then embed it into site culture. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 22, 2025 at 6:28
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    $\begingroup$ @TedShifrin: I was referring to what they say in their profile, just after hell is full of wishes and good will. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 22, 2025 at 23:27
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    $\begingroup$ @Jack Oh, thanks for clarifying. Perhaps this foreshadows the end of the free world as we know it, as well. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 22, 2025 at 23:29
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    $\begingroup$ @JackD'Aurizio I don't know how widely my sentiments are shared, but I think a necessary ingredient in finding policies that won't "keep new users away" is to accept that we need to apply certain rules (e.g. policies on duplicates) differently to different users. Basically newbies should be allowed to do things veterans are not. Veterans vying for more than their fair share of the attention has always been a part of the problem. Gamification at work, so not easy to control. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 29, 2025 at 8:58
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    $\begingroup$ Not forgetting that often complaints like these can also been as thinly veiled attempts to claim a piece of territory. My tag - my rules, get off my lawn! Of course, we cannot creep into the minds of the complainers, but sometimes the shoe fits. Which is, again, understandable. After all, when you specialize on a theme, the examples you can readily use in debates like this often revolve around topics you are following (and have saved the relevant threads). $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 29, 2025 at 9:04
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    $\begingroup$ @TheAmplitwist For example, I don't have a problem with a newbie answering a duplicate question, and getting points for it. But I strongly disprove the practice of veterans doing that. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 29, 2025 at 12:26
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This topic has been raised two or three time in last two months on meta. And I think mostly what has to be said has been said, and every person who at least occasionally visit Meta should've learnt by now what the important points of all sides are.

At this point I think most people who call out the aggressive closers are "shouting in the wind" so to speak and it's mostly a waste of energy. And now it is entirely upto the mods to take action about these behaviors of a certain group of users if we are to proceed forward in a sensible way.

Last time I answered see, I cut the mods some slack based on the the lack of basis to take formal action, but I think at this point, if nothing is done there will be a growth of animosity in the community.

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    $\begingroup$ I have no objection to the mods taking action, or to users calling for them to do so. But one thing regular users (with at least a modest amount of reputation) can do is become more familiar with the procedures for re-opening questions, and begin using them more actively. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 18, 2025 at 13:27
  • $\begingroup$ @JonathanZ what procedures are there? $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 23, 2025 at 15:07
  • $\begingroup$ @JonathanZ my (only so far) experience with re-opening question was "edit my question to add explanation why og question I'm supposedly duplicating is rubbish and wasn't even answered for what I ask - with such explanation being as long as the question itself - and then I simply pray-and-wait, while question keeps getting downvoted due to, I assume, having [duplicate] in the title" $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 23, 2025 at 15:18
  • $\begingroup$ @NooneAtAll3 - There is a thread on meta where people can request a question be re-opened, so one can post there. But I was really suggesting this for people who were unhappy with the general trend of closures, and not with the closure of their own question. I think many users (including me) just don't think to hit the "Re-open" button, or vote on questions in the Re-open queue. We do have some tools. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 23, 2025 at 16:32
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I think there are reasonable arguments both for closing the question and for leaving it open.

I lean towards the view that it is focused enough and can be answered usefully, and keeping the question open adds value to Math.SE as an archive of knowledge.

However, trying to take a charitable interpretation towards why someone might vote to close, I could see how some people might have concerns whether the question is focused enough:

  • First, a guideline is to ask only one question per post. The question asks two questions: "can we generalize any of these results?" and "Is this true?" It might be better to pick one.

  • Second, "can we generalize any of these results?" sounds like it might be rather open-ended. But maybe it is OK.

If you encounter such a question that is closed, and you'd like to answer it, the "Stack Exchange philosophy" would be to edit the question so that it is suitably focused, vote to re-open, and when it is re-opened, answer it. Or, post a new question that contains the more focused version, and answer that on your own. That said, on Math.SE, given the attitudes about editing here, the former approach is risky and might not go over well.

Generally we try to avoid calling out a specific user on Meta. If you have a concern about a single user, it's often better to bring that up with mods. Concerns about systematic or structural problems are appropriate on Meta. So I'm focusing only on that aspect of your question.

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    $\begingroup$ This answer only seems to prove Ted's point that users unfamiliar with topology should not be voting to close topology questions. To anyone with enough background, the correct interpretation of the question was clearly: "Is there a condition for the orientability of codimension k submanifolds analogous to the [stated] condition in codimension 1?" This is very precise not open-ended at all. The "Is this true?" was an attempt at formulating an answer to their main question (which is precisely what we encourage!), not a separate question. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 11, 2025 at 17:29
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    $\begingroup$ @Frank, OK, thanks for explaining! If anyone else encounters this situation in the future of a closed question that shouldn't have been, I encourage them to edit the question to make it obvious that the question is suitable (e.g., to revise the question to word it in the way you have) and add the question to the thread for nominating questions to be re-opened, and I encourage the community here to be more accepting of edits by someone other than the original poster, and I encourage voters to avoid voting to close or re-open a question if they don't have the background to evaluate it. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 11, 2025 at 18:31
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    $\begingroup$ There is a badge that you get when you answer so many questions of a tag. Can we create a mechanism like this? Once you have this tagbadge you can close things in this topic? $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 15, 2025 at 19:43
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    $\begingroup$ I don’t think much can be done, except: should I ask a question, I will make sure to post it on my own website first and give the link. In this way I am not at the mercy of the crowd! Second thing is that this type of questions are more for Math Overflow, but there is not much traffic there, so I do understand the value of posting here as well. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 18, 2025 at 9:53
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    $\begingroup$ @Mason, We can't do anything, only Stack Exchange the company can make those kind of changes. You can post a feature request on Meta, but from past experience, my guess is that they are very unlikely to implement it (most feature requests from the community are not acted on, and especially not ones that apply only to a single site). $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 18, 2025 at 16:09
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    $\begingroup$ @MilenIvanov, Simultaneously cross-posting your question here and on Math Overflow violates both site's policies. So please don't do that. See math.meta.stackexchange.com/a/21238/14578, math.meta.stackexchange.com/q/16288/14578, math.meta.stackexchange.com/q/25343/14578, meta.mathoverflow.net/q/5213/37212, meta.mathoverflow.net/q/5012/37212, meta.mathoverflow.net/q/2637/37212, meta.stackexchange.com/q/64068/160917. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 18, 2025 at 16:16
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    $\begingroup$ @MilenIvanov i don’t follow you. What type of questions are you referring to? $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 21, 2025 at 1:24
  • $\begingroup$ @TedShifrin, I mean research type of questions-like General Topology. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 21, 2025 at 11:33

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