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If you kick-mute someone from a room, no automatic annotation is made on their profile, though one is made if you suspend them from a room.

For tracking/moderation purposes and to match the suspension feature, an annotation should be automatically created when someone is kicked.

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    I personally don't think that it's a good idea, since kick-mutes can be performed by non-moderator ROs, which is a privilege level that's given out relatively trivially (e.g., when a user creates a room). There is already a separate page on a chat profile that tracks kick-mutes, and I'd personally leave those separate from full suspensions and annotations. If a user's being a problem and being repeatedly kick-muted for legitimate reasons, then moderators will be automatically notified and should leave an annotation manually if it's legitimate. Commented Nov 26 at 23:38
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    @SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Shrug I mean, I was asked to post this by V2Blast. Maybe saying who kicked them would be useful, to see if it was being abused? Commented Nov 26 at 23:46
  • Tightening up auto RO requirements might be worth looking at. I also feel like having all the information in 'one' place has value Commented Nov 27 at 1:08
  • Hopefully this can be used for good purpose, because I've seen users kicking their own friends for fun in those "fun" chat rooms... Commented Nov 27 at 2:45
  • @MetaAndrewT. Not enough to hit the thresholds for notifying moderators? Also, doesn't that mean the kicker should be annotated, not the kickee? Commented Nov 27 at 3:37
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    @Otakuwu that link to V2Blast's message doesn't work. Are you proposing to create public (or low privilege level accessible) annotations on user profiles for what might be complete nonsense kicks by random ROs...? I dislike the idea since I've seen enough mod nonsense on the network that I'm left wondering what kind of annotations my profile has, much less random chat ROs. And there have been cases of chat rooms developing toxic environments with no fault of the random user who might walk in. I recall one case of a pretty aggressive chat room where any pretext was enough to threaten users. Commented Nov 27 at 3:58
  • @bad_coder The link is to a mod room, that’s probably why. And no, I’m not advocating for making annotations public to anyone besides mods (though there may potentially be reason to show ros kick logs for users that were kicked from rooms they own, only in rooms they own?) Commented Nov 27 at 5:20
  • @SonictheAnonymousHedgehog why not both? userA was kicked by userB? Commented Nov 27 at 5:44
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    @bad_coder It adds accountability. If a user is being kicked without good reason we can look into it. And honestly, annotations are an underused tool. Its mostly when people get suspended from chat, or has a pattern of poor behaviour. We don't have moderator messages (which work similarly) Commented Nov 27 at 6:39

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As I commented and Snow screenshotted, a log of kick-mutes is indeed shown, but is in a separate page from the one that shows suspensions and annotations.

There is one major caveat to having kick-mutes be on the same page as the latter: unlike moderator privileges, room owner privileges are given out quite trivially compared to moderator privileges. One can become a room owner simply by creating a room or by being the sole active user in a room whose current room owners are inactive. One can also become one just by being appointed one by someone else, such as by a friend in a room that's used for fun.

By nature, when a privilege is given out trivially, it's going to be used frequently. For instance, in the aforementioned "fun" rooms, it often happens that users just kick each other for fun rather than because of an actual violation of the room rules. Having these actions listed in the same list as (and counted in the same number of) actual, serious moderator suspensions and annotations isn't something that should be done in my view.

I think the current system of having them on separate pages is good. The system does a good job of separating these room owner-level actions from the moderator actions of suspensions and annotations. Note also that the system will also automatically notify moderators if a user is repeatedly kick-muted; in that case, if moderators want a note on the same page, they can just annotate them then. One useful change, though, would be to link to the kick-mute list from the suspension and annotation list.

An alternative would be to list them on the same page, but allow the page to be filtered to different types (annotations, kick-mutes, suspensions, etc., or any combination of the above). If this is done, then only annotations and suspensions should be counted in the displayed number.

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  • I’m not sure that RO being able to kick their friends for fun is a feature we need to preserve. Commented Nov 28 at 1:32
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This question has arisen due to an action I took in the SE Lobby. A 1-rep user started throwing poop around the room (their words) and I asked them to stop, when they didn't, I naturally kicked.

We see a great deal of users in the Lobby rooms who are transient, they say a few words and we never see them again. I know that kicks are reported on someone's chat profile, so I didn't bother creating a formal annotation on this users record (especially since we probably won't see them again).

Kicks are hidden within "Permissions" moderator/RO screen for the user, which isn't intuitive and one of those places you wouldn't look unless you know where to look.

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These kick events should, I feel, be included on the main chat annotations screen and not hidden away in a separate screen. There should also be a link to the last message from the kicked user so that interested parties can simply inspect the transcript for context.

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    Your screenshot doesn't depict kicks - these are suspensions for posting flag-deleted messages. Commented Nov 27 at 10:17
  • What's the difference between a kick and a suspension? Commented Nov 27 at 10:18
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    Kick-mute is a room-level sanction that prohibits one from entering or chatting in one specific, given room. The system-specified, non-modifiable thresholds for kick-muting are 1 minute, 5 minutes, and then 30 minutes (for kickees who have 20+ reputation). Kicked users are still welcome to chat in other rooms on the same server during the kicking period. On the other hand, a suspension can only be imposed by a moderator or by one of their messages getting enough spam/abuse flags, and prohibits them from chatting in all rooms on the server (but still allows them to join rooms). Commented Nov 27 at 10:21
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    @SonictheAnonymousHedgehog - That now makes sense. I've amended my answer accordingly. Commented Nov 27 at 10:28

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