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Currently, I'm making a solar system, for my Dungeons and Dragons world. Obviously it's a fantasy world, but I do want it to be scientifically accurate at first glance. I have, for now, two Earthlike planets orbiting a star similar to the sun, I was wondering, if I had them close together in terms of space distance, and they both took around a year to orbit the star, how close together could they be, without being a notable object in the sky, like a moon. I don't want them to look like discs in the sky, like the moon is to us earthlings, but I still think it would be interesting for them to be near each other (if you were looking at them from a solar system scale).

Additional Info: I would want both planets to be in the Habitable Zone (or Goldilocks Zone) since that allows them to stay temperate. When I say notable, I mean I don't want them to be big discs, nor be drastically different to other stars in the night sky (they could be part of a constellation, or look like other planets do in our night sky, but not too big to draw attention to earlier people (difference between "That's part of Orion's Belt", and "That big star there, seems interesting, let's give it a specific name in our sky"). Whilst people with Dungeons and Dragons's technology might start looking to the sky, they may eventually realize they have another planet near them, which is alright, we eventually realized we had Mars, Venus, Neptune, etc. but, beforehand, they were still just stars in our sky, compared to the Moon and the Sun.

Additionally, this Solar System is technically in the Astral Space, meaning, whilst technically "space", I don't believe it's actual "space" in terms we know of. It allows you to travel between worlds, or "planets" but I don't believe you could look to the sky and identify them as planet, star, nebula, etc. (Astral Space is wonky, and I'm not 100% on it.)

Any answers are appreciated, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

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    $\begingroup$ What's "notable"? Venus, for example, doesn't appear anywhere near as big as our moon, but it's certainly still a "notable" object with a resolvable angular diameter, and can be discerned from a star with the naked eye in the right conditions. Is Venus as viewed from Earth too big, or not big enough for you? $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 4, 2025 at 18:22
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    $\begingroup$ I suspect strongly that two Earth-like planets can't both coexist in the habitable zone of any star type, the zone's not big enough. If you make the planet's smaller to try to fit them, then they become cold and dead, if you try to make the zone bigger with a bigger star, the zone ends up shrinking, etc. And that's before you add the additional constraint of "they can't appear to each other as visible discs"... that just wrecks it. Someone else will have to do the math though. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 4, 2025 at 19:16
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    $\begingroup$ What happens when someone invents a telescope? $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 5, 2025 at 8:54
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    $\begingroup$ The word "planet" comes from the Greek for "wanderer". Even in ancient times people knew that some of the visible stars moved around the sky, so you can't get rid of that degree of notability. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 5, 2025 at 8:56
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    $\begingroup$ @PaulJohnson is correct - if the planet is visible to the naked eye, it will be identified as "not a star" very early on. The first planets were identified with the technology available roughly 4,000 years ago, due to the fact that unlike almost every other object in the night sky, planets are not fixed relative to the stars. I think you need this planet to not be visible at all without a telescope, or else people will take note of it. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 5, 2025 at 18:31

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Defining what is "notable" versus what is not is an essential step here. Given a D&D world (generally roughly renaissance-level) and a desire to at least loosely adhere to science we have several options:

If we assume your second world must also exist within your star's Goldilocks Zone, perhaps there is a substantial dust ring in orbit between your worlds, hiding them from each other. Otherwise, reflected light would eventually catch some astronomer's attention, and renaissance-equivalent telescopes would be able to see the planet.

Alternatively, if we lean into the presence of magic and accept a sprinkle of "A Goddess did it":

  • Magical or divine influence could put your second world in the same orbit but almost exactly on the opposite side of the sun (The L3 Lagrange Point). Can't see through a star! Normally this wouldn't be perfectly stable, but with the power of god and anime magic on your side, anything is possible.
  • Alternatively, your second world could be well outside the Goldilocks Zone, but kept livable by magic. Uranus may have been discovered by 1781, but Pluto was only decisively found in 1930. Put your world out far enough and no renaissance-equivalent technology will be able to see it.
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    $\begingroup$ Of course! I forgot about the L3 lagrange point. I'll edit my answer to point more directly to that. Thanks for the reminder and starscape detail! $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 4, 2025 at 18:52
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    $\begingroup$ Thank you! The planets will want to be in the Goldilocks Zone, so they are both temperate, plus, I don't believe I want anything like a dust ring to obscure the night sky just to hide them from one another. I'm fine with the planet eventually being discovered by the two with modern technology (modern to DnD), just not being a substantial object in the sky to the naked eye, difference of "This star in this constellation." and "That big star called this." if that makes sense. (I've added additional information to the original question/post, as well.) $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 4, 2025 at 22:24
  • $\begingroup$ @TeliKrystal you can also think of things like a planet much closer to its star but with an atmosphere that reflects sunlight and keeps it cool or, conversely, one further out but whose atmosphere traps heat and keeps it warm. You could still have those be habitable and temperate but not in the Goldilocks zone. Or you can simply hand-wave it away and give the species living in the other planet different physiology (the Goldilocks Zone is only relevant to creatures more or less like us, why limit yourself to those?). $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 5, 2025 at 16:48
  • $\begingroup$ L4 and L5 are stable and keep the same distance to each other in the same orbit $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 6, 2025 at 8:20
  • $\begingroup$ @HansKesting L4/L5 are only stable if one planet is much larger than the other (at least 25x the mass): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_point#Stability_2 $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 6, 2025 at 11:55
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About as far as they are in reality in our solar system

Any semi realistic orbit of separate earthlike planets around a star will have them far enough to satisfy your requirement by default. Visible disc-like planets in the sky isn't something that occurs outside of fantasy and video games.

Why?

  • You can't get planets of earth size together much closer (while staying in the habitable zone of a sun-like star) than venus/earth/mars are. If they were closer their orbits would mess with each other, making the system unstable.
  • You can't make earth-like planets much bigger without them becoming non-earthlike.

As a bonus, venus, wich is roughly the size of earth, can get to an apparent angular size of about 1' wich is also about the limit of the human eye. So nature really has this already dialed in quite well, much closer or much larger and it would become a visible disc.

If you want visible disc-like "planets" and still be somewhat realistic you need to go with moons instead. Like the earth/moon system, or multiple big moons around a gas giant.

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    $\begingroup$ the best answer $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 5, 2025 at 15:36
  • $\begingroup$ If gravity's a concern and anyone wants to play with it, the web-hosted "Super Planet Crash" simulator is a fun distraction and provides visceral demonstrations about how hard it is to get stable orbits near each other. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 5, 2025 at 20:28
  • $\begingroup$ I guess you could have a double-planet (i.e. a pair of planets orbiting each other, and together the star), like Pluto and Charon. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 6, 2025 at 0:25
  • $\begingroup$ What unit is ' in the second to last paragraph? Degrees? I normally see that to mean feet $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 6, 2025 at 16:54
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    $\begingroup$ @MJD its an arc minute, 1/60th of a degree. There is also the arcsecond, commonly written as " which is 1/60th of a arc minute, or 1/3600th of a degree. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 6, 2025 at 16:58
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Short answer:

If you don't want your habitable worlds to look like object but instead want them to like mere dots in the sky, make them not much more than 6,371 kilometers in diameter (half the the diameter of the Earth) and make their closest approach to each other not much more than 30 million kilometers or 18,641,135 so they can both orbit within the habitable zone of their star.

Long Answer:

I have looked at the moon and not only been able to see it as a disc but also been able to see light and dark areas on its surface. So its angular diameter as seen from Earth of about 30 arc seconds is much more than great enough to be seen as a disc.

And of course the Moon is not an earthlike planet by most standards while Earth is the most Earth-like planet known. Earth has over three times the diameter of the Moon so it would have to be three times as far away as the Moon to appear as small as the moon does from Earth, and several times that to appear like a dot instead of a disc.

The angular diameter of an object with a diameter of d at a distance of D is 206,265 times d/D arc seconds. There are sixty arc seconds in an arc minute and the smallest angular diameter which can be resolved by the unaided human eye is about one arc minute.

In our solar system the planet which is closest in size to Earth and which comes closet to Earth sometimes as they both orbit the Sun is Venus.

Venus has an average radius of 6,051.8 kilometers and thus a diameter of 12,103.6 kilometers. A seen from Earth, Venus looks largest when it is closest to Earth almost directly between the Sun and the Earth, and thus looks like a thin crescent. When Venus is closest to Earth it is about 41 million kilometers or 25 million miles from Earth.

So the angular diameter of Venus when closest to Earth should be 205,625 times 12,103.6 divided by 41,000,000 or205,625 times 0.000295209, or 60.696523 arc seconds. And that is about 1.0099 arc minutes, which is approximately the minimum angular diameter to be seen as an object instead of a mere dot of light.

It is said that people with good vision can sometimes see with the unaided eye Venus when closest to Earth as a crescent shape instead of a dot. I myself have sometimes looked at Venus and thought that I might possibly be seeing it as a very tiny crescent on the edge of visibility.

Assuming that an "Earthlike planet" would have half to twice the diameter of Earth, since the average radius of Earth is 6371 kilometers and its averaged diameter of 12,742 kilometers, an "Earthlike planet" would have a diameter of 6,371 to 25,484 kilometers.

For a planet to have an angular diameter of 1 arc minute or 60 arc seconds, the distance to the planet would have to be 3,437.75 times the diameter of the planet.

So if a planet had a diameter of 6,371 kilometers, it should be at a distance of 3,437.75 times 6,371 kilometers, or 21,901,905.25 kilometers to have an angular diameter of 1 arc minute or 60 arc seconds.

So if a planet had a diameter of 25,484 kilometers, it should be at a distance of 3,437.75 times 25,484 kilometers, or 87,607,621 kilometers to have an angular diameter of 1 arc minute or 60 arc seconds.

So if you desire that when the two Earthlike planets are at their closest their angular diameters should appear to be about 1 arc minute or 60 arc seconds, and that people with human eyesight can just barely detect them as objects instead of mere dots of light. and if the "Earthlike planets" have diameters between 6,371 and 25,484 kilometers, their closest approach should be between 21,901,905.25 and 87,607,621 kilometers.

If you want the two planets to be more easily seen as planets from each other, their closest distances should be closer, and if you want them to never bee seen as objects instead of dots of light, their closest distances should be farther.

Since the two planets will be at their closest when they are lined up with each other and with the Sun, the closest distance between them will be approximately equal to distances between the semi-major axes of their two orbits.

And if you want both the planets to be within the habitable zone of their star, you will want the habitable zone of their star to be wide enough to include both orbits. There is a simple way to find the inner and out limits of the habitable zone of star. Find the habitable zone of the Sun, and find the ration between the luminosities of that star and the Sun and allow for the inverse square rule.

Here is a link to estimates of the limits of the habitable zone of the Sun made in the last 60 years. Notice how much they vary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitable_zone#Solar_System_estimates

The estimate by Kasting et al in 1993 is widely used and gives a conservative estimate of 0.95 to 1.37 AU, a difference of 0.42 AU or 62,831,105.69 kilometers. Their optimistic estimate gives limits of 0.84 to 1.67 AU, a difference of 0.83 AU or 124,166,232.7 kilometers.

The estimate by Kopparapu et al in 2013 gives an estimate of 0.99 to 1.67 AU, a difference of 0.68 AU or 101,726,552.1 kilometers.

So the good news is that some estimates of the habitable zone of the Sun give room for two habitable planets to orbit within it at distances where they never look like objects when seen from each other and always look like tiny dots of light.

The bad news is that in order to get the right temperatures for liquid water near the inner and outer edges of their habitable zones, scientists often assume those planets have atmospheres unbreathable for humans to regulate the temperatures.

The only calculation that required an atmosphere breathable for humans was Dole in 1964, with a a range of 0.725 AU to 1.24 AU, and range of 0.515 AU or 77,042,903.41 kilometers. And I suspect the inner edge might be much farther out than Dole calculated.

So I suggest that you make your two habitable Earthlike planets quite small, not much more than half the diameter of Earth, and make their closest approach not more than 30,000,000 kilometers.

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    $\begingroup$ By the gods, that's a lot of maths for my post! Thank you so much! I'll have a look into viewing this in Universe Sandbox sometime tomorrow, and see if I find a way that I like it. (If I figure something out, and can, I will look into showing screenshots tomorrow, hopefully. Thank you, again!) $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 5, 2025 at 0:50
  • $\begingroup$ Please express all astronomical distances in AU, and planetary bodies as earth diameters. km and miles (Land or sea?) lose their meaning quickly. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 5, 2025 at 9:08
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Frameshift: Let's mess with the Goldilocks zone a bit.

One star is in orbit about the primary. Another is in orbit about a tiny red dwarf that is orbiting the primary. The second planet isn't actually in the habitable zone of the red dwarf, but the extra energy it gets from the red dwarf is enough to allow it to exist a bit outside the Goldilocks zone of the primary.

I believe the first planet and the red dwarf must be in an resonance situation for this to be stable.

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Okay! I've finally come to an answer for my own worlds, and so I have some pictures of simulating it in Universe Sandbox, but I would also like to answer a few questions.

This Image has the milky way background, with Planet 1 being around where the Earth orbits the sun, and is where most of my campaigns take place. Planet 2 is tidally locked with the sun, and is a world I'm currently building on.

Image two has a black background, and it's hopefully easier to see the two planets. The two planets orbit together, however planet two does orbit faster, and eventually goes around the back of the star for around a few days.

To answer some further questions, after watching a video to explain Astral Space further, I have some actual understanding of it now.

This universe takes place in 5e of Dungeons and Dragons, with Wildspace, the actual name for space, at least a solar system, being very different from 2e, when Wildspace etc. was introduced.

Inhale... When looking to the stars, everything you see up there, space, stars, planets, are all actually up there, and is known as the Astral Sea, and Wildspace. A solar system, as we know it, is a star, or sun, with Dungeons and Dragons worlds, taking the place of Planets orbiting them. Solar systems are called "Wildspace Systems", and are little bubbles where everything are bundled inside and in their own little system. Wildspace is a colourful, kaleidoscopic, ocean of activity, not like space as we know it, it is constant activity.

When you pass the threshold of your Wildspace System, or bubble, you enter Astral Space, a silvery area between worlds, and it becomes a surreal, abstract world of thought, and bizarre. Dead gods, crystal monoliths, abstract concepts floating endlessly through the nothingness. You lose the need to breath, you move through will, and exist as a concept rather than the body you once were...

So, now that most of Wildspace and the Astral Space is explained, I can explain a few more answers about the world. When looking up, the distance between the planets, even when closest, is over 0.3 AU, or well over 50 million Kilometres. Upon inventing a telescope, which Astronomers on Planet 1 have, they can look up and view individual stars, and different things out in Astral Space, and Planet 2 in their Wildspace System. Additionally, both planets (more may be added to the system, but for now I haven't thought them up) have Earthen Atmospheres, and allow them to breath in the places people live, since messing with Atmospheres are outside of my knowledge (for now). Adding to atmospheres, I may make another planet further, and another closer, to the sun, once I know how atmospheres may change to become livable temperature-wise, and let the ones who live there breath whatever air they may have there.

As for now, this is all the questions I have seen, and things I have seen, but I will probably come back to add things incase people are still interested, or maybe even making similar things. Thank you everyone who's helped, and added!

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