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I like this site. As both a scientist and an educator, it has allowed me to do the two things I love the most: continue learning, and teach where I can.

I joined Stack Overflow late and didn't really consistently contribute until about 2022-2023. Since then, several changes have occurred that I didn't agree with, but have either shrugged them off or I have gotten used to the change. However, with each change there seems to be a unique degree of anger and backlash from the community at large.

Reading through the comments and MSO questions and answers of people who have been here much longer than me, this dissatisfaction seems proportionate and perfectly valid. I agree with many of the comments, though I personally don't feel the same degree of anger and resentment. As a newcomer that does not feel the same level of betrayal, my sentiment is more, "this new feature sucks, whatever."

On the whole, many of the comments from longtime users seem to allude to a gilded age of Stack Overflow where folks were meaningfully listened to, the site was optimized for the user experience, and good questions and answers flowed like wine at a wedding. It sounds lovely, a coder's utopia.

Did this golden age of Stack Overflow really exist? I have been trying to answer this on my own, but it has been difficult for me to piece together the timeline of changes and discern between true dissatisfaction and user bias in a meaningful way. I feel a bit like Colonel Fawcett searching for the Lost City of SO.

In a dispassionate, brief, and unbiased way, could some of the old timers explain to me the SO timeline, what Stack Overflow was like at its peak, what it felt like to be part of that community, and what key moments or changes incited and sustained its fall from grace? I know the widespread use of AI accelerated many issues, but my sense is that the dissatisfaction among long-time members long predates this.

This is more-or-less a fact-finding request not intended to incite or rehash grievances well-described elsewhere. So, for a bit of levity, feel free to explain it like you are a grandparent telling their 5-year-old grandson a bedtime story about days of yonder.

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    I feel like not being around prior to the 2019 debacle precludes me from really answering, but I think something important to keep in mind in this discussion is that there were times when it was better, yes, but it was always flawed to some degree. That certainly isn't to undermine SO's success or value– more just tether us to reality: SO's always had rough edges. It just also used to have so many users that the edges were less... important, I think. Meta used to be a little more fun then, too. Things didn't feel quite so serious. Commented Feb 25 at 17:48
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    I've cried twice in my adult life, first when my granddad died, and the second when Shog9 left Stack Overflow. Commented Feb 25 at 18:28
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    blog.codinghorror.com/… Commented Feb 25 at 20:15
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    @BhargavRao I shed a tear then, too and I am crying now. That was the day Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange really died. Commented Feb 25 at 20:22
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    @pkamb Here's to hoping that Stack makes it to its 20th, in a form that's still recognized as collectively useful. Commented Feb 25 at 21:34
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    Dang kids. I used to have to compile my code uphill. In the snow. BOTH WAYS. Now get off my lawn! </sarcasm> Commented Feb 25 at 21:47
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    Bah! Back in my day we were struggling with finding sustainable sources of fire. Then along came these punk kids making their own fires by smashing rocks together. Put a lot of good fire-maintainers out of work, they did. Commented Feb 26 at 0:41
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    The best way to help anyone is to criticize them, if we don't criticize them and tell them what they wanna hear, how are we helping them? Commented Feb 26 at 1:44
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    @SoFewAgainstSoMany better self esteem. But really, we need to find better ways of criticizing. The work needs doing, but we ought to be able to do it without folks heading off to the greener pastures of Geeks For Geeks or whatever the kids are using these days Commented Feb 26 at 4:43
  • @user4581301, they do that because some of them are victims of the ego built into high ranking developers by the reputation system on this site, their questions get ignored so they are better off talking to a machine which will at least try to give them a solution with the little context they will provide. Commented Feb 26 at 5:00
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    @SoFewAgainstSoMany that's great, but people can't contain themselves and go well beyond critique. To help someone, you need to first be actually in a helpful mood first. That's a big prerequisite to fill. Commented 2 days ago
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    @user4581301 Geeks For Geeks actually offers the better experience for beginner questions. It has a coherent layout of the contributions, while we kind of show an intermediate product (Qs, comments on Qs, votes, Multiple Answers, comments on these As, votes again). They successfully carved out a niche and serve useful content for a specific purpose, while we did not go in that direction, probably didn't want to. Commented 2 days ago
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    I joined only a little while earlier than you, but I would definitely say 2021-May 2023 was a time of decent reasonability, as opposed to the constant debacles afterwards Commented 2 days ago
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    @ParkingMaster 2021 was already past peak SO. There was a lot of tension, slight decline in activity, a decline in average-usefulness-per-post, etc. But it wasn’t blowing up every 2 seconds, so it was mostly fine Commented 2 days ago
  • As an old timer I also remember GeoCities websites too Commented yesterday

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Gather 'round kids, and I'll tell you why the elders are whispering in the corners of the meta-taverns...

Was there a Golden Age?

You asked if there was a golden age. Truth to be told, there was never a utopia. At least none that I've seen since ~2014-2015 when I started visiting the site regularly (and later joining in 2016). There was always friction, there were always grumps. This is the Internet after all.

But, once, the archive builders and the librarians had an unwritten deal: We do the work you can't do or won't do, and in exchange, you give us the tools to keep the place beautiful. We used those tools to build a library of knowledge. It wasn't (still isn't) just closing things; we were ranking the content so the best stuff rose to the top (well, for the most part).

Then, the Builders got scared...

As the scrolls stopped coming in, actively dropping to the levels not seen since the very first months of the 'Archive' in 2008, the builders started chasing ghosts. They jumped on every 'hype train' that left the station. They started firing the very people who knew how the archive worked. The ones, we, the librarians, had made our deal with. Why? Because they dared to say, 'Wait, that's a bad idea.'

They didn't just break the contract though; they broke the bookshelves we so dearly organized.

  • You liked the Editor? They gave you a broken one.

  • You liked the Curation? They called it "unwelcoming" and took away your shovel.

  • You liked Voting to find the best answers? They turned it into a "thumbs up" game where the "down" is just a coin tossed into a wishing well.

  • You liked the distinction of Comments and Answers? They turned them into threaded 'blobs of engagement,' turning the Q&A site into a social media feed.


The anger you see isn't just because the activity is down; it's the disrespect. When they told us they 'hear us' while actively breaking our workflows and pushing AI over humans, and running experiments no one asked for... When they didn't 'clarify' anything but instead gaslighted us.

The 'Golden Age' wasn't a time of perfection. It was simply a time when the people in charge didn't treat the people doing the work with utter disrespect. Now (well, it's been going on for quite a while), the Librarians are leaving because they've realized they aren't partners anymore; they're just free labor for a company that's forgotten why the library was built in the first place.

The Archive is still there, but the lights are flickering, and the librarians are handing in their keys.

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    There definitely was a golden age, but I'm afraid you just missed it :-( Commented Feb 25 at 20:31
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    @Cerbrus meaning early-2010s? Commented Feb 25 at 20:32
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    Up to about 2015 I'd say, yeah Commented Feb 25 at 20:34
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    @Cerbrus was there internet back then? /s Commented Feb 25 at 20:35
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    I mean, you manually had to send the bits down the line, but yeah :D Commented Feb 25 at 20:37
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    Well, to their credit, they didn't jump on the crypto/NFT hype train. (Unless I missed something?) Commented Feb 25 at 20:38
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    @GeneralGrievance iirc they did blog about it a ton, and i think they stood up a stack for it or something? Commented Feb 25 at 20:50
  • @user400654 Yeah, there's stacks for some blockchain stuff, but they're not very high traffic. I also don't pay attention to the blog, so it's very possible I missed it. But at any rate, they didn't really manifest into grossly unmanageable on the main site did they? Commented Feb 25 at 20:56
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    it didn't, no, because it's not really relevant on the main stack outside of the programming end of it. but the same can be said about genai. they made a stack for it too, and even did everything they could to ensure it was a success... and it's still more or less dead. :shrug: Commented Feb 25 at 21:07
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    The 2012-2013 era was pretty good. The rule list was already sizeable but with enough effort you could understand your limits. There were still plenty of questions to answer in your favorite popular tag. All the old gang was still there and meta was used properly, also to have a dialogue with the company that actually went somewhere since we had people like Shog that could act like a product owner. Feature requests would actually be implemented, 2 years later but at least it happened. Yeah. Those were the good times. Commented 2 days ago
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    @Gimby yeah, even looking back at the post from that time I can say that those days were "OK". Up until 2018 it wasn't terrible either. Yes, things have started to change but not akin to today's situation. But even back then, there was friction, there were grumps. We can call then 'The Golden Age', my point is that at some point there was a shift towards dismissing our voices and viewing us as adversaries; and it was downhill since. Commented 2 days ago
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It is challenging to articulate what precisely made Stack Overflow’s early years feel so special because there is really no one answer. It was a different time, in both broad cultural ways and in the niche of internet programming forums in particular. I cannot hope to really scratch the surface of what made SO what it was, nor could I possibly pay tribute to the vast array of people who contributed to that magic, but I will try to provide a rough idea of what made early SO so meaningful to me.

Stack Overflow as disruptive technology

Seventeen years later, it is difficult for us to even imagine how innovative Stack Overflow was as a technology at the time. I do not mean to say that it was the first website to have a reputation-style system or a similar approach to community curation; it certainly was not. But SO was created to solve a fairly specific problem, namely collecting high-quality answers to programming questions and cutting out the noise of endless discussions and debates. In 2009, search queries about programming would more often than not take you to phpBB threads of rambling discussion which likely did not provide much of an answer. It was awful. By comparison, SO’s clean, focused approach was a breath of fresh air.

There is a lot to be said for how powerful a singular focus can be. SO was a kind of living manifesto, a crystallization of the frustrations of people who knew all too well how things could go awry and wanted to build guardrails to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past. However, despite this lofty goal, there was an understanding that it could not simply be imposed top-down by authority: ultimately, the value of the site hinged almost entirely on those writing questions and answers, as after all, the entirety of the site’s content comes from its users.

This resulted in an idealistic vision of SO as a new hybrid between a Q&A site and a wiki compiling a library of knowledge on the subjects of programming and technology. There is certainly something alluring about this proposition. A pure wiki is enormous in scope, vast and not always very usefully organized for solving a task at hand. Meanwhile, pure Q&A forums inevitably result in people asking lots of the same questions, and without mechanisms in place designed to handle that, answerers end up repeating themselves a lot. Under the SO system, well-written questions provide clear scope and focus, while the ability to mark a question as a duplicate ensures that if a question receives a high-quality answer, the problem of answering it can stay solved.

People have described the earliest days of SO as “addictive”, and for me at least, it is not hard to see why. Isn’t there something thrilling about the rare opportunity of a blank canvas upon which you can have a hand in building a better world? Which brings me to my next point…

Stack Overflow as participatory democracy

SO was not just technology: it was also a philosophical project. This is hard to convey these days, as in retrospect it all feels a bit quaint, but there was a time when the people calling the shots believed in something, and those beliefs were pervasive in the choices they made and the ways they communicated. If you find it hard to believe they were really that earnest about it, remember that this was a company publishing blog posts with titles like A Theory of Moderation. They were nerds, and they cared, and it showed.

So what were some of the foundational principles of the “SO philosophy”? One of them was a pursuit of quality over quantity: another of Jeff’s better-known blog posts of the era was entitled Optimizing For Pearls, Not Sand. Nevertheless, there was an implicit understanding that maintaining the desired level of quality at the volume the site was intended to support would be an enormous undertaking, and as such, every user must be able to step up and participate in that task.

This democratic vision of a site run primarily by its users lumbers on in so many ways, however vestigial. Moderators were and are described as “human exception handlers”. Close voting, the ability for any user to edit any post at any time, and numerous other site privileges reflect SO’s wiki heart. But although plenty of sites have some form of voting, SO took its principles far beyond simple social features, resulting in a fundamentally democratic approach to constructing and iterating on SO-the-technology that, personally, I have never really observed before or since:

  • SO doesn’t just permit casting votes or flags, it gives users access to site moderation tools once they have sufficient reputation. The review queues are the most obvious one, but so is giving users access to site analytics. The underlying idea here is that sure, it wouldn’t be a good idea to give thousands of users all the privileges of a diamond mod, but we can aspire to close the gap between them as much as possible.

  • SO is a shockingly open platform, in certain ways. On what other website can you make SQL queries against a PII-scrubbed database? Again, the idea was that this site belongs to its users, and they need as many tools as possible at their disposal to make informed choices because that isn’t even really the job of the people who build the software. It would be like the people who write MediaWiki making decisions about how Wikipedia ought to be run.

  • That naturally leads to the idea of Meta itself, where employees, moderators, and users are all set on a largely equal playing field. It is no coincidence that Meta does not really distinguish “staff posts” from questions or answers from other users. The role of the company was to nurture, guide, and enable.

  • Finally, of course, diamond mods themselves are democratically elected, but in the earliest days, a great many staff members were active users of the site, too. Some of the most passionate and active users on Meta made the jump to diamond mod or CM. There was a feeling that we were all in this together, and we had the same goals: making the best Q&A site we could, whatever that took.

Nothing is ever perfect. Democracy is hard, and there was always some resentment that not everything was truly democratic. After all, SO-the-company decided what to implement and how to do it, and from the very start, those choices were not always aligned with popular opinion. Still, even when decisions were made, the mutual understanding that the site was collectively run in a partnership between SO’s employees and users motivated, at the absolute least, explanations of future plans and earnest attempts to sway hearts and minds by mounting a compelling case.

Far too many people had a hand in this grand process of consensus-building for me to ever hope to list, but there is one exemplar who is so fondly remembered that tears were shed upon his departure: Josh Heyer, better known as Shog9. He brought a clarity, calmness, and earnestness to the challenge of wrangling such a diverse set of interests that provided a guiding light that the community could trust, no easy feat among a group as fiercely opinionated as programmers. Whenever there was something that made the community uneasy, if Shog threw his vote behind it, we all knew we had to at least give it a try. It was nice to feel like we had such an ally bridging the company and community, a leader we would follow into battle. I still remember the day I learned he was laid off, and I had not been actively participating on SO for years at that point. I simply could not imagine an SO without him.

But why is Shog so fondly remembered? Take a look at some of his questions and answers on MSE, and it probably won’t take long for you to understand. Often, he would ask for help from the community, and after soliciting feedback, he would come back with a proposal and really get into the weeds of the reasoning that was made. Often that reasoning included data, and lots of it, and people could participate in the conversation and actually impact the way things were implemented, in the end. Users had a role in the foundational design of new site tools, and our feedback was seriously listened to.

It sounds hopelessly idealistic now, but we really did feel like our voices mattered. Because, for a time, they did.

Stack Overflow as community

The early days of Stack Overflow were a different time for internet social spaces. Social media was still in its infancy. Forums were generally niche and disorganized. Even instant messaging was still not widespread. SO offered the opportunity to be a part of something with a group of other people passionate about all the same things. I don’t think it’s hard to understand why people look back on that so fondly.

It is worth reflecting on the similarities and differences between Stack Overflow and Wikipedia. They shared many of the same ideological principles, but there were some crucial differences. For one, one of the core ideas of SO was that, since it is not just a wiki, it needed purpose-built tools and workflows to facilitate what the site was supposed to be. On Wikipedia, everything is MediaWiki—it’s all “made of the same stuff.” SO is not really like that. The content is all just Markdown; everything else is fixed-function software built on top.

In this way, SO was never truly as democratic as Wikipedia, nor could it ever be. Even setting aside the implementation differences, MediaWiki is open-source software, and Wikipedia is run by a non-profit. SO is and always was a product by a for-profit company. Its founders had an ideological vision, yes, but staff come and go, and sometimes, the culture goes with them. In the beginning, the company needed its users. It had to treat them with respect, as it had nothing more than a foundation to build upon. These days, SO-the-company owns the single largest repository of written programming knowledge in existence, and it will continue to own it whether its users choose to participate or not. We gave untold hours of our lives cultivating a corporation’s greatest asset, and now we must live with the reality that it seems to believe we are no longer necessary and can be dispensed with. Only time will tell whether they are right.

Still, it is a testament to the strength of SO’s original vision that SO-the-community has never truly abandoned its principles. The community is larger, more amorphous, more fundamentally fixated on the same goal it always was: doing the day-to-day dirty work of question-answering and moderation. In this way, that ideological vision lives on in the people who are left, in spite of it all, and in the systems (many decaying, some being actively dismantled) that were set up by those who believed.

I will not attempt to comment on whether things could (or should) have gone another way. I cannot really say. It is sad to have been a part of something beautiful only to see it slowly crumble and fall into disrepair, managed by people who seem to find SO’s grand experiment an inconvenient obstacle to be put out to pasture. But many of us are still here, after all this time, and I don’t think that happens without having been a part of something really special.

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    It's impossible to name all great contributors from the company (Tim Post, Jon Ericson, Julia Silge, Yakoov Ellis,..) and community but there must have been hundreds if not thousands of them during their best time. I remember the 0.013% of the community being active in meta. I'm proud to have been a small part of it and for me it's now time to move on. Commented Feb 25 at 22:12
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    > On what other website can you make SQL queries against a PII-scrubbed database? Wikipedia. And they keep them up-to-the-second rather than Stack Overflow's approach of loading in a dump every week. Commented Feb 26 at 0:42
  • It's true that SO the company was always for-profit, but for the first few years it really didn't feel like it. it was a fun startup, with real profit not an urgent concern. Joel's blog and the company blog gave a good peek inside. When Joel stopped bragging and the company was sold, it turned into a more traditional for-profit corporation with much less tolerance for rough edges and transparency. Commented Feb 26 at 3:10
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    A good question for the company to ask itself is - would the next Shog be something this environment could create and would they even be hired Commented Feb 26 at 7:48
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Did this golden age of Stack Overflow really exist? I have been trying to answer this on my own, but it has been difficult for me to piece together the timeline of changes and discern between true dissatisfaction and user bias in a meaningful way.

The problem with most "good 'ol days" stuff, is that you usually talk about them with rose colored glasses on. When I joined, I started answering questions and ran headlong into the religious folks who would smack you hard for not mentioning how to avoid SQL injection. I mean, I would be chewed out in comments and downvoted if I did not mention the holy prepared statement.

Stack Overflow's big problem, for most of its existence, has been the low-quality user. These ranged from help vampires

I break the rules all the time and always get the help I need

to comparing those enabling them (sometimes unfairly) to sex workers

And then there's the perennial debate over downvotes and whether or not we should force users to comment before making them. Those were the halcyon days, however. Staff and users alike pulled in the same direction.

If you want the man, the myth and the legend, that would be Shog9. One part Community Manager, one part Dev, and one part philosopher. Shog9 crafted some key policies. And when he erred, he'd backtrack. He was the face of Stack Overflow staff, more than Pops, balpha, Taryn/bluefeet, etc.

Until he was fired.

If that had been all there was, at the time, we probably would have weathered the storm better. But that's not all that was going on.

If you're looking for an epochal event, it was the firing of Monica Cellio. The firing was unjustified and sparked mass moderator resignations. What followed was a masterclass in how to get a community to quit en masse. There was the (deleted) "oops" post, followed by a non-apology, and ultimately only got marginally better once a VP of community was hired after most of the stakeholders who were embroiled in the debacle left SE/SO. The mistakes made during this time were legion.

Mistrust of staff was probably at a 2 or 3 before this. It hit 10 during that time, and has bounced around 6 to 9 ever since. There are more than a few people who still resonate with this user. There was no strike over that event, but the mistrust it sowed helped fuel the 2023 moderation strike.

When most folks talk about the past being better, they generally mean pre-Monica.

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    I hope this one does not go up to 11. Commented Feb 26 at 7:27
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    When you say "pre-Monica", don't you actually mean not-post-Monica – given that, y'know, she was around? Commented 2 days ago
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    "low-quality user" There have always been questions that read like "do my homework for me" or "do my job for me". But I noticed in Summer 2020 the rate of these questions appearing (within my narrow focus) on the site increased by at least an order of magnitude. Maybe that's from the pandemic response resulting in lots of people needing IT work to make ends meet because they couldn't physically go to their jobs. Looking at the graph in M--'s answer, questions and votes really took a nose dive in 2020. That seems to be a related event. Not sure if SO policy changes relate to that somehow. Commented 2 days ago
  • @wizzwizz4 No, I definitely mean pre-Monica Commented 2 days ago
  • Quite honestly, checking the last archive.org backup of the deleted oops-post, I am already not sure... I think also the answerers were unfair. Commented 2 days ago
  • Monica was not a friendly mod, and she sided with the unfriendly tone of the site before her fall. The company fired her in so ugly and unfairly dishonest circumstances, that it was impossible to not side with her; but I am nore sure if she had became a positive player it these events do not happen. Commented 2 days ago
  • @wizzwizz4 I think Machavity means "Monica the situation", not "Monica the user". Commented 2 days ago
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    @peterh I think you are wrong, and also that it’s rather irrelevant at this point. Please stop bringing up your personal grudges all over meta, out of context with no apparent reason. Commented yesterday
  • @Starship I was among the guys who sided with her, not because I had agreed her, but because basic moral principles. My personal grudges are independent from that story. Currently I have a codidact account what I occasionally use and I hope the codidact has a better long-term future. Commented yesterday
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Q&A used to be a place where I could go help people. Decent questions with the occasional gem, people used to know how to use a search engine, and when that didn't work, they came to Stack Overflow.

Especially the tag was a gold mine to me, in those days. More answerable questions than I could possibly handle. And even if there was a duplicate, OPs seemed happier to have their questions closed, since they were pointed to an answer.

My best answers are from that time, 2012-2015. Answers which tackled documentation shortcomings. Answers explaining functionality in a simple manner, telling the OP where they went wrong, and helping them towards an (often more efficient) solution...

Times have changed. Those days will never return, but it was fun.

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    You forget that back in the day, people knew how to make a decent web searching engine that served up a side of advertisements rather than an ad-serving platform that rarely provides what you were looking for. I don't blame today's kids, well not completely, for crappy searching skills. The searching tools are crappier AND there's a lot more crap to search. Commented Feb 26 at 1:03
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    @user4581301 yeah I thought it was me, but Google is really not returning the same quality of search results anymore. It has... fixations, where different search terms that should return different results keeping hacking up the exact same irrelevant links anyway, in exactly the same ordering too. You used to be able to easily find the more obscure search results which actually did have the answer to what you are seeking. It's all pushing towards using the blasted AI services because the alternatives have been made shitty. Commented 2 days ago
  • When the Google results serve up a tack and saddlery shop when searching for mealworms, you know they're just coasting. Commented 2 days ago
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I spent a lot of free time voting, moderating, etc. back in the early days. Felt like I was building the library of Alexandria. The general message from the owners was, this is your site, you have to make it wonderful, rah rah, and I believed it, was here every day, etc.

Then there was some issue, I forget what exactly, where there was a community vote between X and Y, and the community voted overwhelmingly in favor of X. Site did Y. Outrage erupted, and the answer was "it's our site, we can do what we want". I decided then, if it's their site, they can hire a moderation team, and stopped using the moderation queues I had access to. Why provide free labor to someone else's site?

I still vote and try to answer what I can, but now voting seems broken somehow, which lead me to Meta.SO and Meta.SE, and it seems some sort of Redditization is in progress. Best of luck to the owners with that. I'll keep contributing at my current level but just seems, worse all around.

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At 17 years on Stack Overflow I'm probably one of the oldest users answering your question; there definitely was a golden age. And I think I can pinpoint the exact day things lost traction: the 7th of February of 2012.

That was the day Jeff Atwood left Stack Exchange.

Jeff isn’t just a passionate technologist; he also deeply understands people and has an exceptional instinct for the human side of what makes communities thrive.

I don’t know Jeff personally, but after years of reading his posts on Coding Horror and later on Stack Exchange, I’m convinced that he always put the community and the user experience first. Profit and metrics didn’t seem to drive his decisions.

And truth be told, I have no idea how Jeff would tackle the overflow of users and all the problems that hit StackOverflow since, but one thing I know for sure: he would be listening fully, knowing that 90% of this is crap.

https://blog.codinghorror.com/listen-to-your-community-but-dont-let-them-tell-you-what-to-do/

And to be fair, things continued to run smoothly for a couple of years after he left. Steering a ship this large takes time; momentum doesn’t change overnight.

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    I can tell you Jeff Atwood has repeatedly vocally opposed a number of stacks recent stupid ideas Commented 2 days ago
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I’m sure if you go back far enough, a time period when it felt more like the public Q&A was the product the company was focusing its efforts on and creating solutions to the problems the community faced, but… it’s been quite a long time since then. The company moved on to being a SaaS business.

It’s not so much of a case of a golden age existing, rather, the spotlight moved somewhere else. Even at SO’s peak, there were widespread issues within the community that needed to be addressed, and they were. Often in very big ways that significantly impacted the way the site and community operates, such as the implementation of review queues. But… those large changes also caused new problems that needed to be addressed and it felt like they never were. Dev resources went to the budding SaaS side of the business.

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  • Is SO actually a SaaS business, or just desperately trying to become one? Does Stack Overflow for Teams actually contribute to the company's bottom line and profitability or is it another failed Business SaaS pivot that's being propped up by the original good idea from 18 years ago? Commented Feb 25 at 20:20
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    @pkamb i don't have their numbers to know precisely where their $$ comes from, but there have been public statements in the past that hinted at what the percentages were... though i'm not really interested in looking for them. Commented Feb 25 at 20:23
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Not quite an SO golden age, but I've been around the network a very long time. Super User, and Server Fault had a thriving community, and a significant number of staff were involved in the network as users or in other ways. We had a dedicated team of (well on hindsight interns) community organisers active and fixing up the network, and we were growing.

I disagree on Shog and Monica's removals/firings to have been the point where these problems started. They were points of inflection when things got bad fast, but the rot started earlier.

I don't think there's anyone left who would know the internal lore - but at some point halfway through Joel's tenure as CEO... things started going wrong. There was some sort of internal realignment away from Q&A to the SAAS type businesses, large layoffs (which ended up being a periodic pattern) and other issues of that sort. I almost feel like Joel somewhat checked out before he left, and whomever was setting the direction cared little about the working end of the network.

The company drifted way, and continued to drift away from the community.

If you want to see the golden age? Pick a main site chatroom from a decadeish ago. I've literally complained about a small obscure problem and someone went "ooh! I can fix that!" and I had a notification system I ran for years.

It was close knit communities, consider the starwall on the comms room - (screenshot here), getting into disagreements with Jeff over whether a question was on topic on Super User, and finding common ground. I once had a team chaos member drop into the root access chatroom, and confusing two users to great hilarity. We were one community, even if you were new, not separated between staff and community or old and new.

It was working with and interacting with staff, not cause it was part of the job, but because they wanted to. Our interactions with staff, even for mods have diminished over time, cause other things were found more important. We stopped having quarterly mod meetups for example, cause there wasn't time to.

I'd like to believe we could get that again, and bring the communities we lost home - We're constantly told that we to accept change to fix the problems our current direction has brought us. Maybe the direction that needs changing isn't ours. Stack Overflow (the business), needs Stack Overflow, the site, and the broader Stack Exchange ecosystem to be healthy if people are to buy into their brand.

I do believe if the company really put community first - we could at least recover some of that lost trust. I often don't see the willingness to trust in the wisdom of the community, nor the company doing this.

So just look back - at the broader communities, or even SO before it got so large and important, and our history is right there if you want to look.

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    "There was some sort of internal realignment away from Q&A to the SAAS type businesses, large layoffs " It became fairly obvious to me at the time that Joel just wanted to get the numbers in order to sell the company. Things like pitching "Teams" as the next big thing rather than a peripheral feature nobody really cares about. He managed to sell it and quite overpriced too - good for him. But that was indeed when things started to go bad. Commented Feb 26 at 8:49
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    @Lundin No teams then, Careers was the big thing. Commented 2 days ago
  • SO for Teams was definitely there, it was released somewhere around 2017-2018. Commented 2 days ago
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    Re "Joel somewhat checked out before he left": It could have been due to health problems: "Open heart surgery two years ago" (2017) Commented 2 days ago
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    Some context for the CHAOS team at Stack Exchange. There was also a Meta Stack Exchange post, "What is the meaning of CHAOS? Is it related to the PSI (?) character?", but it has been deleted (only visible to users at Meta Stack Exchange with more than 10,000 reputation points; the post was originally at meta.stackoverflow.com, but it was migrated to Meta Stack Exchange). Commented 2 days ago
  • cont' - The original members were Aarthi Devanathan, Abby T. Miller, Brett White, Lauren Gundrum, Laura [?], and Samuel Brand. Commented 2 days ago
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    I think you nailed it with the note on "community first"... there've been many ebbs and flows in the dynamic between Meta & company since '19, but it feels like they've fully shifted at this point from a view that "Meta is full of stakeholders invested in seeing the site succeed", to "Meta is a focus group we can poll when convenient", with the primary difference being that there's a level of accountability to the former group, but not the latter. The days of any project being actually halted or even changing major course because of critiques from Meta feels... quite optimistic, these days. Commented 2 days ago
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Others have rehashed a lot of the past and how things felt, so I won't retread that ground. But I'll offer only one thought.

Back then, it felt like we were all championing the same thing. Now, it's clear that we're not.

I recall in about 2012 that I went to their office opening event in Downtown Denver. I actually met Joel Splosky in person despite not realizing it until he pointed to his name tag. I had a chance to talk to people, despite my extreme interpersonal social aversion. (I've gotten better by now...) It was an event geared more towards their new job board product, but it was still nice to see people there.

Over time, engagement with the company on the site shifted from this feeling of hope and belief that the company was still championing the same thing. It wasn't obvious or even something I could say happened at X time. But you noticed it. Somehow, the feeling of hope and belief was getting overruled with feelings of disrespect, feelings of frustration, feelings of...betrayal? Staff we forged a bond with started becoming more distant or were let go unexpectedly. The company started making moves and decisions and policy changes that took that hope and belief away, even if some - most - of us held on to it.

To simplify it, look into the trust thermocline. It'll make more sense than whatever reminiscing I've done...

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I joined the site in 2012. I knew it even before, but I did not want to join a microsoft thingy. It was not a hard requirement, I just did not hurry to join.

I registered in 2012, but I have started to use the site intensively only in 2013. Fun thing is that probably I am one of the rare users whose first contribution was a tag wiki edit. :-)

In 2013, there was already no golden age, at the time already the close warriors ruled the field, with all the evil I try to fight since then. In 2014, things became yet more hard and in 2015, with self-censored moderatorship, nearly unbearable. The company did not or could not do anything, even if it was clearly visible on the stats, that nothing good will come out from these.

There were superficial changes, nothing and never really radical. Looks they tried to follow a "do not change a working system" model, except that the system did not work. :-)

The cumulative effect of the superficial changes caused a bit loosening. Also guys with affinity for other fields, could find a bit of refreshment on other SE sites (which were later, very likely exactly on this reason, deliberately neglected).

I think 2014-2015 were the worst years here. It is also visible on the stats, these were the years as it became clear, that the activity went from exponential growth into a slowly decreasing stagnation.

If there were "good old days" ever, they happened before 2013.

What I know about this era: it was much easier to ask questions, it was not a specific skill to regularly defend them, by your rep, meta activity, various tricks and similar. You just asked it. Also the tone was much more friendly, asking questions and creating answers was more like a cooperative recreation. Today it is work and fight.

Also upvotes came much easier. As I joined, already we needed to fight for them hardly, with a lot of work.

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    This answer talks about everything but the good old days. You're just rehashing your personal grievances... Commented Feb 25 at 20:22
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    "Also the tone was much more friendly, asking questions and creating answers was more like a cooperative recreation." As a mod who has access to deleted content, including comments and regularly has to see them, I can tell you that the site was a lot more toxic years ago. Commented Feb 25 at 23:41
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    is this site a microsoft thingy? Commented Feb 26 at 0:48
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    SE is written in C# and uses MS SQL as a DB. Until very recently it was all hosted on windows server, though its all some flavour of linux on GCP these days Commented 2 days ago
  • @Dharman I don’t disagree, but in fairness site activity has decreased 50x, so it wouldn’t be surprising if toxic comments also decreased 50x Commented 2 days ago
  • @Starship I was comparing the past 5 years to the previous 13 years. When the site still had large activity numbers, the toxicity of comments was already down from what could be seen in historical comments. Commented 2 days ago
  • @Dharman Activity has been (slowly) been going down for over a decade. Commented 2 days ago
  • @Starship MSO did not decrease so like the main site. One of my hypotheses, why the site was a crazyhouse more than a decade long, was that it was the pleace where we "let off the steam". It is supported by my other observation: among the SE sites, the hostile ones are those where the visitors are doing the topic as their job, AND the job options there are bad or decreasing. The best SE sites where the communities are kept together by the love of the topic of a group of amateur enthusisasts. Commented 2 days ago

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